Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[wogx]

I didn't find any direct quote from Merc customers in that article
Its just speculations / click bait

McLaren's Lando Norris was quite critical about the overall state of his MCL36, but also pointed to the Mercedes power unit as being a weak link in the chain.

"I mean, it's definitely not helping. I think we're definitely lacking on that end compared to the other guys."

[RonMexico]

2019 Bahrain also had Merc customers at the back of the pack

A hastily modified 2018 Racing Point that was terrible until it was replaced by a B spec car at mid-season and an abysmal Williams that was miles off the pace all year. Hardly the same circumstance

Cant that be the same scenario now?
Horrible brake problems for Mclaren, poorly designed AM, always at the back Williams?

That could be the case, it's certainly not a good sign though.

AMuS seem to think that the Ferrari PU is in the lead with Merc behind them and Honda/RPT by a quantifiable amount.

[siskue2005]

A hastily modified 2018 Racing Point that was terrible until it was replaced by a B spec car at mid-season and an abysmal Williams that was miles off the pace all year. Hardly the same circumstance

Cant that be the same scenario now?
Horrible brake problems for Mclaren, poorly designed AM, always at the back Williams?

That could be the case, it's certainly not a good sign though.

AMuS seem to think that the Ferrari PU is in the lead with Merc behind them and Honda/RPT by a quantifiable amount.

Could be but the straight line speed was not bad or was on par with Ferrari
Speed at the start finish line

[erikejw]

Some of Mercedes' engine customers have suggested that the new power unit from the German manufacturer isn't quite as powerful as they'd like.

https://racingnews365.com/mercedes-cust ... ver-engine

They should indeed voice their concerns. I find it quite odd that Merc's engine 'seems' to be worst or second worst this year. Does it just really hate ethanol?

It's very strange.
Maybe they had a very potent 5% biofuel additive.

[radosav]

Ricciardo said post race that they lacked a straight line speed, but can't put all the blame on engine, that other things didn't go well also, but from that words you can read that engine is a part of problem this year.

[Big Tea]

A very good engine can make up for a lot of what a car lacks. If the engine is no longer better than the competition the deficiency in the car is shown up more. It does seem though that the Merc engine is no longer infront of others, but does it meet what the teams were promised?

[radosav]

https://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp ... b45ef.html
here in article is mentioned that mercedes engines are running safety maps due to reliability

[dans79]

https://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp ... b45ef.html
here in article is mentioned that mercedes engines are running safety maps due to reliability

I wouldn't believe a single word of that. The article is so hard to follow, it's like the author through a bunch of random thoughts and rumors together and pushed the publish button.

[Dee]

https://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp ... b45ef.html
here in article is mentioned that mercedes engines are running safety maps due to reliability

Look, I don't care about Merc running safety mapping

What I care about is Merc not having the performance in the first place and then saying they need to improve reliability to get it

You either have it and show it and then downtune and run safety maps or you are not allowed to ever increase your performance with a reliability upgrade

Just too easy to manipulate when you say "I could perform at this level" when that level has never been shown

[dans79]

https://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp ... b45ef.html
here in article is mentioned that mercedes engines are running safety maps due to reliability

Look, I don't care about Merc running safety mapping

What I care about is Merc not having the performance in the first place and then saying they need to improve reliability to get it

You either have it and show it and then downtune and run safety maps or you are not allowed to ever increase your performance with a reliability upgrade

Just too easy to manipulate when you say "I could perform at this level" when that level has never been shown

They don't have to necessarily show it on track ever. If memory serves they can go to the FIA based on what's happened on the dyno!

[Dee]

https://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp ... b45ef.html
here in article is mentioned that mercedes engines are running safety maps due to reliability

Look, I don't care about Merc running safety mapping

What I care about is Merc not having the performance in the first place and then saying they need to improve reliability to get it

You either have it and show it and then downtune and run safety maps or you are not allowed to ever increase your performance with a reliability upgrade

Just too easy to manipulate when you say "I could perform at this level" when that level has never been shown

They don't have to necessarily show it on track ever. If memory serves they can go to the FIA based on what's happened on the dyno!

Do you think the FIA should sign off on an engine that has never been run in a car?

March 1st was the cutoff point

Honda, Ferrari and Renault managed to get theirs out on time

Why should it be different for Mercedes?

I want the engine to be competitive so we have a lot of different teams in the mix, I just don't agree with the premise of "It will be ready later" when performance upgrades have been banned.

[dialtone]

Look, I don't care about Merc running safety mapping

What I care about is Merc not having the performance in the first place and then saying they need to improve reliability to get it

You either have it and show it and then downtune and run safety maps or you are not allowed to ever increase your performance with a reliability upgrade

Just too easy to manipulate when you say "I could perform at this level" when that level has never been shown

They don't have to necessarily show it on track ever. If memory serves they can go to the FIA based on what's happened on the dyno!

Do you think the FIA should sign off on an engine that has never been run in a car?

March 1st was the cutoff point

Honda, Ferrari and Renault managed to get theirs out on time

Why should it be different for Mercedes?

I want the engine to be competitive so we have a lot of different teams in the mix, I just don't agree with the premise of "It will be ready later" when performance upgrades have been banned.

This rule about reliability upgrade is really not well understood...

https://racingnews365.com/how-f1-manufa ... ir-engines

An engine supplier wishing to make changes can submit a written application to the FIA's Technical Department, outlining the reasons for the request. As well as a detailed explanation, the manufacturer must include evidence outlining the research into the issue and how they have proven the change will rectify it.

The submitted explanation and proposed solution will then be circulated by the FIA between all the engine manufacturers, in order to get a better understanding of whether the original manufacturer's request is justified and fair. If the FIA are satisfied by what the other manufacturers say about the solution, then permission may be granted to make the change.

Even in the electric part (ES, CE, MGU-K), which will be homologated Sept 1st you are only allowed 1 update in season.

No engine manufacturer will pretend to need safety upgrades that aren't real and give up how their engine is made or having difficulties.

[Big Tea]

They don't have to necessarily show it on track ever. If memory serves they can go to the FIA based on what's happened on the dyno!

Do you think the FIA should sign off on an engine that has never been run in a car?

March 1st was the cutoff point

Honda, Ferrari and Renault managed to get theirs out on time

Why should it be different for Mercedes?

I want the engine to be competitive so we have a lot of different teams in the mix, I just don't agree with the premise of "It will be ready later" when performance upgrades have been banned.

This rule about reliability upgrade is really not well understood...

https://racingnews365.com/how-f1-manufa ... ir-engines

An engine supplier wishing to make changes can submit a written application to the FIA's Technical Department, outlining the reasons for the request. As well as a detailed explanation, the manufacturer must include evidence outlining the research into the issue and how they have proven the change will rectify it.

The submitted explanation and proposed solution will then be circulated by the FIA between all the engine manufacturers, in order to get a better understanding of whether the original manufacturer's request is justified and fair. If the FIA are satisfied by what the other manufacturers say about the solution, then permission may be granted to make the change.

Even in the electric part (ES, CE, MGU-K), which will be homologated Sept 1st you are only allowed 1 update in season.

No engine manufacturer will pretend to need safety upgrades that aren't real and give up how their engine is made or having difficulties.

Which it why I believe Merc arrived with an engine that was not ready. The engine built to a spec 'better' than it is being used at the moment, but ready for 'something' that will be a plug in and give the extra power. It could be a software upgrade or non listed part that they have not finalised yet. Akin to giving a road car a new 'chip' and manifold system. The metal bits stay the same

[dialtone]

Do you think the FIA should sign off on an engine that has never been run in a car?

March 1st was the cutoff point

Honda, Ferrari and Renault managed to get theirs out on time

Why should it be different for Mercedes?

I want the engine to be competitive so we have a lot of different teams in the mix, I just don't agree with the premise of "It will be ready later" when performance upgrades have been banned.

This rule about reliability upgrade is really not well understood...

https://racingnews365.com/how-f1-manufa ... ir-engines

An engine supplier wishing to make changes can submit a written application to the FIA's Technical Department, outlining the reasons for the request. As well as a detailed explanation, the manufacturer must include evidence outlining the research into the issue and how they have proven the change will rectify it.

The submitted explanation and proposed solution will then be circulated by the FIA between all the engine manufacturers, in order to get a better understanding of whether the original manufacturer's request is justified and fair. If the FIA are satisfied by what the other manufacturers say about the solution, then permission may be granted to make the change.

Even in the electric part (ES, CE, MGU-K), which will be homologated Sept 1st you are only allowed 1 update in season.

No engine manufacturer will pretend to need safety upgrades that aren't real and give up how their engine is made or having difficulties.

Which it why I believe Merc arrived with an engine that was not ready. The engine built to a spec 'better' than it is being used at the moment, but ready for 'something' that will be a plug in and give the extra power. It could be a software upgrade or non listed part that they have not finalised yet. Akin to giving a road car a new 'chip' and manifold system. The metal bits stay the same

I suppose that is possible but it's even more risky than skipping a week of testing with the new aero package to just keep it hidden. You may end up discovering you need to change parts, or even just engine layout slightly (you can't even change cable layout in the engine today without TD approval) to make the full power engine reliable. They all start lower power in the season because points is better than no points, but it's unlikely they have a LOT of power left because the behavior of the engine would change quite a bit and might require small updates to make sustainable which in turn would require TD and giving up secrets.

[Dee]

Do you think the FIA should sign off on an engine that has never been run in a car?

March 1st was the cutoff point

Honda, Ferrari and Renault managed to get theirs out on time

Why should it be different for Mercedes?

I want the engine to be competitive so we have a lot of different teams in the mix, I just don't agree with the premise of "It will be ready later" when performance upgrades have been banned.

This rule about reliability upgrade is really not well understood...

https://racingnews365.com/how-f1-manufa ... ir-engines

An engine supplier wishing to make changes can submit a written application to the FIA's Technical Department, outlining the reasons for the request. As well as a detailed explanation, the manufacturer must include evidence outlining the research into the issue and how they have proven the change will rectify it.

The submitted explanation and proposed solution will then be circulated by the FIA between all the engine manufacturers, in order to get a better understanding of whether the original manufacturer's request is justified and fair. If the FIA are satisfied by what the other manufacturers say about the solution, then permission may be granted to make the change.

Even in the electric part (ES, CE, MGU-K), which will be homologated Sept 1st you are only allowed 1 update in season.

No engine manufacturer will pretend to need safety upgrades that aren't real and give up how their engine is made or having difficulties.

Which it why I believe Merc arrived with an engine that was not ready. The engine built to a spec 'better' than it is being used at the moment, but ready for 'something' that will be a plug in and give the extra power. It could be a software upgrade or non listed part that they have not finalised yet. Akin to giving a road car a new 'chip' and manifold system. The metal bits stay the same

"The engine built to a spec 'better' than it is being used at the moment"

That is a performance upgrade which is banned

The paragraph highlighted an issue that needs to be resolved, not a different spec engine

As of now Mercedes is performing at level A, to go to level B they need to change it. This should not be allowed as it is in fact a performance upgrade. It is not the same spec of engine that is in it now.