2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[ringo]

He really has nothing to prove after 103 wins and 7wdc.

Russell wasn't driving for Mercedes in 2020 or 2021, so nobody knows if Russell could have 1 WDC or 2 WDC, which would also mean Hamilton would "only" be on 6 WDC (which is still excellent!).

All both Mercedes drivers -- Russell and Hamilton -- can do is push to the maximum. Obviously despite Lewis being certain that Mercedes GP "never makes mistakes", he lost faith in the team while also Wolff did not offer a sufficient contract. A shame for the three-star brand, but it happens I guess -- Vettel similarly left Red Bull Racing for the prancing horse despite success, while Alonso left Renault for McLaren-Mercedes despite success...

Indeed Hamilton himself left McLaren-Mercedes despite success and could otherwise have stuck with McLaren-Honda, McLaren-Renault and McLaren-Mercedes to the present day!

It's all woulda coulda shoulda. If Lewis didnt have a gearbox glitch in Brasil 2007 he would be a rookie champion, or if came in to pit one lap earlier in China that year.
If his engine didnt blow in Malaysia 2016, or had the reliability issues then.
2021 etc.. Many situations Lewis could also be a 9 time champ, not to mention more wins thar were stollen. Let's keep it simple at 7 time and 103.
There is no point Lewis push to the Maximum with a setup predicted to give them 7th at best if all redbulls, ferraris, mclarens have clean races and Alonso makes an error or burns out his tyres.
The setup changes are defining the limits of the car and the tyres. It's actually helping the team.

[Elite]

And yet he couldnt beat him in the same car as a rookie. Hmmm…

Riding on the coattails of a performance 17 years ago??

Hamilton has always been superior to Alonso and max

Always has been always will be. He's the best driver on the grid now. Can't wait to see him in that Ferrari

[Elite]

It's really quite simple, the w14 development was stopped as they had reached the limit of the potential of that concept. Performing well? You must not have watched Brazil, Las Vegas, Abu Dhabi.

With respect, you have no clue what you are talking about and should go back to the red bull forum instead of obsessing over Mercedes

Had they reached potential though or is it just a saying? I mean RB now run a Mercedes style engine cover (which I think looks awful BTW) so clearly some parts were working.

No public is ever going to know the full set of numbers or headline/max potential numbers for a car, just isn’t going to happen.
We got a lucky piece of information when Red bull designers said they had seen ‘their’ max potential of a design and considered a change.

I think Merc or perhaps Toto was trying to please Lewis and this was capture in one scene in Drive to Survive where Lewis said I told you so and Toto agreed . I believe that scene must have happened before Mike was fired. And little did they know AN took some concept from W14 and integrate to their RB20. Guess Mike must now be saying I told you so Toto.

2024 and 2025 will be a writeoff for Merc and no one seems to be talking about any major upgrades. And it's kind of weird to see LH scrutinising RB20 after the sprint race..is he still involve in the design department at merc? or for Ferrari?

He might have taken aspects but what I was saying is that the w14 as a whole had reached its development limit. They admitted that they'd found it over the winter which is why they changed some fundamentals. Sadly it seems they can't build a good floor or just a car that has consistent handling traits.

[Elite]

Toto is a problem for the team moving forward just as Mattia was. They need a fresh outlook on running the team when the engines are on par, which currently the set up (1000 people) does not work. Toto is a share holder and he can continue on that, but TP and CEO are not suited to the current budget camp era.

I kind of agree that Toto needs to go. I like him as a character and for what he has done for the team over the years. But he can bring no mor3 new ideas as team principal.
He should be CEO then bring Binnotto in as teamp principal.

I hope this is sarcasm. Toto is bad but Binotto has an even bigger ego.

[Elite]

Can't wait for 2025 to see everybody that's here right now in the Ferrari threads! Lol. There always seems to be a litte caravan following no matter where the sticks are put up.

But guys. The man finished best of the rest laste year in the fifth fastest car, has 7 wdc and 103 wins and 104 pole positions. I don't see how trundling around for 6th place means anything?

It makes more sense to help Mercedes understand their own car no?

And suddenly all the 63 gr "fans" disappear and become CL16 fans and experts

You can see it just by the silence here when 63 binned it in the last lap

The George fans (or just lewis haters) post this stuff because they're in denial. They can't comprehend how Hamilton is just so much better than the others. Sure he makes some setup errors at times, but it's over a season that counts. We see how he comes alive if he has the right setup. And we saw how epic he was in the rain on Friday. Some others couldn't keep it on track

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Riding on the coattails of a performance 17 years ago??

Hamilton has always been superior to Alonso and max

Always has been always will be. He's the best driver on the grid now. Can't wait to see him in that Ferrari

Hamilton, the best driver on the grid now? Well, someone has enjoyed some strong mushrooms. Max is destroying the whole grid, and Hamilton is getting beaten by Russell again this season. Maybe Hamilton should dominate his teammate before you can even compare him to Verstappen.

[CHT]

Hamilton has always been superior to Alonso and max

Always has been always will be. He's the best driver on the grid now. Can't wait to see him in that Ferrari

Hamilton, the best driver on the grid now? Well, someone has enjoyed some strong mushrooms. Max is destroying the whole grid, and Hamilton is getting beaten by Russell again this season. Maybe Hamilton should dominate his teammate before you can even compare him to Verstappen.

What Merc need right now is to find a driver that is quicker than GR and that i am sure there are plenty. If Merc take LH out of the equation Merc may possibly see an instant performance gain.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Always has been always will be. He's the best driver on the grid now. Can't wait to see him in that Ferrari

Hamilton, the best driver on the grid now? Well, someone has enjoyed some strong mushrooms. Max is destroying the whole grid, and Hamilton is getting beaten by Russell again this season. Maybe Hamilton should dominate his teammate before you can even compare him to Verstappen.

What Merc need right now is to find a driver that is quicker than GR and that i am sure there are plenty. If Merc take LH out of the equation Merc may possibly see an instant performance gain.

What Merc needs right now is a competitive car; the drivers are the least of their problems. Merc already having trouble finding a suitable replacement for Hamilton's seat. If they can't secure Sainz, they may have to go with Antonelli. LH fans have serious problems to accept that he is no longer the best driver on the grid. If you think that Hamilton, in his 40s, would switch to the superior Red Bull car and immediately start beating Verstappen, give me a break.

[Cs98]

It's different when you used to win trying to claw your way back. Than when you don't know how to win and settle for what you get.
Aston Martin and Alonso are Force India fundamentally. P7 is what they expect. Stroll is nowhere and Alonso is new to the team and has no reason to experiment. They car is solidly 3rd of 4th best car on the grid. Force India are glad with that status.
As for Lewis only complaining about setup when he loses to George. That's not true. Even when he is ahead he says he made some changes after Practice 3 that seem to work or wasnt the best. He always says that. Why would he be a spoiled sport if he gets a good result and complains? The hate brigade will say he is ungrateful etc. The man cannot win in the eyes of some.
But again, why did he experiment and come 3rd last year? Clearly he knows what he is doing. And clearly he doesnt see beating George as any kind of career goal to accomplish. He's just keeping his head down and smelling the roses and learning about car setups. He really has nothing to prove after 103 wins and 7wdc.

Yeah, fundamentally Force India... + a brand new factory + a new wind tunnel + full funding + new ownership + new technical leadership + new drivers + an incoming works engine partner. Basically the exact same team, kind of like how RBR is just Jaguar with a new badge. Nothing has changed for those two teams, ambition level is still back of the midfield.

Alonso has no reason to experiment? Why he has the exact same reasons to "experiment" as Hamilton, all they care about is getting back to the front. They've already felt the taste of victory. The real reason he doesn't "experiment" is because he's crushing his teammate, he's not in need of an excuse.

He never calls them "experiments" when he's ahead, nor does he feel the need to bring it up. It's only when behind he brings it up as an excuse. Of course, we won't find you in here saying that "Hamilton might've beat Russell because his experimental set-up worked", ever. Eventhough if you truly believed he was doing these experiments, and you were honest, that would be a very likely possibility. Would it not? Or do experiments only fail, only work one way? Convenient.

But again, why did he experiment and come 3rd last year? Clearly he knows what he is doing. And clearly he doesnt see beating George as any kind of career goal to accomplish. He's just keeping his head down and smelling the roses and learning about car setups. He really has nothing to prove after 103 wins and 7wdc.

And 6th the year before that, let's not forget.

Keeping his head down? Not exactly. He's keeping his head up in the media, on the team radio, making sure everyone far and wide knows that Sir Lewis Hamilton is indeed conducting "experiments". If he truly didn't care he wouldn't be so adamant about reminding everyone after every session. Of course he does care, and he understands that it does matter for his remaining career. A person who didn't care would act like Seb Vettel did in the final seasons of his career.

Okay. Let's make a bet. Hamilton beats Russel this year, still makes excuses to the media, and does the young driver test for Ferrari and the world forgets about 2024 and the W15 and even Russel gets forgotten.

Thank you for acknowledging the excuses, that's better. As for who wins, I'm 50/50 on that. Hamilton is still a quality driver and so is Russell. They can both beat each other on merit any given weekend. The problem I have is that certain fans seem unwilling to acknowledge that fact, and instead like to peddle excuses in one direction.

[FW17]

Toto is a problem for the team moving forward just as Mattia was. They need a fresh outlook on running the team when the engines are on par, which currently the set up (1000 people) does not work. Toto is a share holder and he can continue on that, but TP and CEO are not suited to the current budget camp era.

I kind of agree that Toto needs to go. I like him as a character and for what he has done for the team over the years. But he can bring no mor3 new ideas as team principal.
He should be CEO then bring Binnotto in as teamp principal.

I hope this is sarcasm. Toto is bad but Binotto has an even bigger ego.

They need someone else with a fresh perspective. There will also be the issue with a lot of personal senior and junior who will be resistant to change as they would be of the flawed opinion that they won 8 championships in a row out of their own abilities.

[Cs98]

Theres improving setups and there's looking for a silver bullet in the setup that's not there. My take is he's been struggling to unlock performance in the ground effect era and most of the experiments are for his own benefit more than the teams, which is why George keeps his mouth shut and gets on with it. The win is not coming and anyone who believes so is straight off there rocker. The car is not even capable for podium and please dont use yesterdays sprint race as indicator.

the car will never make a podium either if every body is happy with finishing 6th like GR is........

Champions are not happy with any thing other than competing for titles.....

How the tables have turned... When Vettel was struggling in 2014 most Lewis fans said a champion should adapt to the car, none of his reasons were taken seriously.
Now we have Lewis asking for a stable rear... He got that and the blame moved to understeer.

All these explanations are fun to read...
Lewis indeed is a expert circus master. Sebastian, Daniel, Kimi and any other driver that struggled never cared to manipulate his fans to this length.

Reminds me of what Jin9128 said in 2021 about Hamilton and how it still stands true to this day.

I dont remember any one sayin that in 2014 when he got beaten by Riccardo, people just out right questioned his ability, he then went to Ferrari which was a team full of mistakes that made him look worst, but by this point, Green vettel had already kicked in, AM came along but he didnt really believe in racing any more and wanted out to do his global warming thing / 0 emission work.

Here you go... viewtopic.php?t=28449
viewtopic.php?t=15404
Scroll down to read PZ's comments

There were multiple threads on Kimi Raikkonen and Sebastian Vettel.

Some of my favourite outtakes from the 2014 thread. Remind you of anything?

Vettel keeps getting these little issues that are difficult to judge just how much they're costing him. They always seem to be broadcast loudly over the radio.

Its probably just a coincidence but its quite clear he and Ricciardo have similar pace overall with Daniel having a slight edge probably.

This next take coming from someone active in this thread today (rhymes with bingo), now making excuses for Hamilton of course.

Vettel is being beaten consistently.
He finally has a half decent teammate and after this many races, i think it's fair we re-evaluate where he is on the top driver list. Riciardo is good, but i don't think he's one of the top drawer guys just yet, judging from his time with Vergne. So i'll have to put Vettel down for now, and if Seb has better luck and is able to show what he can do with the RB10 maybe i'll think otherwise. But as it stands Danielle is the #1 driver.

It's amazing what fandom can do to critical thinking.

[Martin Keene]

The Alpine looked like a different car with their new floor. Shows how much impact the floor alone has on the car, even when wings were not optimized to it.
Mercedes shouldn't be this incompetent with floor and suspension design, but let's see if they find their eureka moment.

I think given we are now 3 years into this rules cycle, and the W15 is at least the fourth attempt at the rules (W13, W14, heavily revised W14 and now W15) I think any hope of a eureka moment at long gone.

[Luscion]

Mercedes’ upgrade in Miami will reportedly come with changes to the floor, above and below, to correct the flow pattern and stabilise the aero map of the W15 at certain speed ranges. The detachment of the fluid vein is present, it seems, an aspect that greatly reduces the performance of the car. What's more, "corrections" will come in the central part of the single-seater, side pod area, with a probable necessary re-shaping to gain a few more cubic centimeters in the undercut area. apparently,

It remains to be seen whether the multi-award-winning stable will introduce the new rear wing that has been in the works for some time. From the info gathered, we know that it is an upgrade capable of maximizing the load at the rear related to the beam-wing configuration, a context that is imperfect at the moment, as the combined work of the two current components is not as effective as it should be. Mercedes is ready to implement a step with which it would like to unlock some of the unexpressed potential and, of course, widen the car's tuning window.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2024 ... pdate.html

[Venturiation]

Fandom of gr63 is so delusional in this thread and happy with mediocrity

[Silent Storm]

the car will never make a podium either if every body is happy with finishing 6th like GR is........

Champions are not happy with any thing other than competing for titles.....



I dont remember any one sayin that in 2014 when he got beaten by Riccardo, people just out right questioned his ability, he then went to Ferrari which was a team full of mistakes that made him look worst, but by this point, Green vettel had already kicked in, AM came along but he didnt really believe in racing any more and wanted out to do his global warming thing / 0 emission work.

Here you go... viewtopic.php?t=28449
viewtopic.php?t=15404
Scroll down to read PZ's comments

There were multiple threads on Kimi Raikkonen and Sebastian Vettel.

Some of my favourite outtakes from the 2014 thread. Remind you of anything?

Vettel keeps getting these little issues that are difficult to judge just how much they're costing him. They always seem to be broadcast loudly over the radio.

Its probably just a coincidence but its quite clear he and Ricciardo have similar pace overall with Daniel having a slight edge probably.

This next take coming from someone active in this thread today (rhymes with bingo), now making excuses for Hamilton of course.

Vettel is being beaten consistently.
He finally has a half decent teammate and after this many races, i think it's fair we re-evaluate where he is on the top driver list. Riciardo is good, but i don't think he's one of the top drawer guys just yet, judging from his time with Vergne. So i'll have to put Vettel down for now, and if Seb has better luck and is able to show what he can do with the RB10 maybe i'll think otherwise. But as it stands Danielle is the #1 driver.

It's amazing what fandom can do to critical thinking.

I actually pity them because it's actually sad. Some of these people are doing this since 2008 or 2009 and have been consistent. It's some sort of defence mechanism or something more serious...

The hypocrisy is astounding though.