Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:19
diffuser wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:06
Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 18:26

Not true. Merc had better in race deployment from 2023 onwards.
obviously he disagrees, what proof you have of this ?
Seeing the Honda derate more than the Merc for years, especially on high speed tracks.
Like Vegas and Monza that RBR won in 2025?

Anyways I think it's gonna be good enough to win races. if there is a difference between Merc and Honda PU as a whole in 2025, it wasn't more than .05%.

Not a huge fan of that guy. Stuff he says isn't anything new. Stuff like Honda had to completely repackage the PU to fit int the chassis is a little exaggerated. The rules really force the positioning of most parts. All he could really ask is positioning of the radiator/intercooler inlets/outlets and the air intake in the airbox. Even then the compressor has to be near the rear of the ICE. I think the AM will be making the intercooler, I know they make the radiators.

Badger
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:41
Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:19
diffuser wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:06


obviously he disagrees, what proof you have of this ?
Seeing the Honda derate more than the Merc for years, especially on high speed tracks.
Like Vegas and Monza that RBR won in 2025?

Anyways I think it's gonna be good enough to win races. if there is a difference between Merc and Honda PU as a whole in 2025, it wasn't more than .05%.

Not a huge fan of that guy. Stuff he says isn't anything new. Stuff like Honda had to completely repackage the PU to fit int the chassis is a little exaggerated. The rules really force the positioning of most parts. All he could really ask is positioning of the radiator/intercooler inlets/outlets and the air intake in the airbox. Even then the compressor has to be near the rear of the ICE. I think the AM will be making the intercooler, I know they make the radiators.
Yes, the Honda deployment was particularly bad in Vegas.
Image
You can clearly see that the Honda derates much earlier than the Mercedes. It's consistent throughout the race albeit slightly better in the second stint.

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 22:32
diffuser wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:41
Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:19

Seeing the Honda derate more than the Merc for years, especially on high speed tracks.
Like Vegas and Monza that RBR won in 2025?

Anyways I think it's gonna be good enough to win races. if there is a difference between Merc and Honda PU as a whole in 2025, it wasn't more than .05%.

Not a huge fan of that guy. Stuff he says isn't anything new. Stuff like Honda had to completely repackage the PU to fit int the chassis is a little exaggerated. The rules really force the positioning of most parts. All he could really ask is positioning of the radiator/intercooler inlets/outlets and the air intake in the airbox. Even then the compressor has to be near the rear of the ICE. I think the AM will be making the intercooler, I know they make the radiators.
Yes, the Honda deployment was particularly bad in Vegas.
https://i.postimg.cc/7PScMVB9/derate.png
You can clearly see that the Honda derates much earlier than the Mercedes. It's consistent throughout the race albeit slightly better in the second stint.
That's funny, Max pulls away, his engineer get on the radio on lap 11 and says "Max your gap is 1.7 seconds!". Max slows down to help Russell tow to fight Norris and you choose that lap. Lot of cat and mouse going on in races, switching of power modes, etc. Plus When you're leading the race there is no slip stream ... look at lap 44 when Max is closer to col. You can see Max is deploying in different places.

saviour stivala
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 22:32
diffuser wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:41
Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:19

Seeing the Honda derate more than the Merc for years, especially on high speed tracks.
Like Vegas and Monza that RBR won in 2025?

Anyways I think it's gonna be good enough to win races. if there is a difference between Merc and Honda PU as a whole in 2025, it wasn't more than .05%.

Not a huge fan of that guy. Stuff he says isn't anything new. Stuff like Honda had to completely repackage the PU to fit int the chassis is a little exaggerated. The rules really force the positioning of most parts. All he could really ask is positioning of the radiator/intercooler inlets/outlets and the air intake in the airbox. Even then the compressor has to be near the rear of the ICE. I think the AM will be making the intercooler, I know they make the radiators.
Yes, the Honda deployment was particularly bad in Vegas.
https://i.postimg.cc/7PScMVB9/derate.png
You can clearly see that the Honda derates much earlier than the Mercedes. It's consistent throughout the race albeit slightly better in the second stint.
''Derating - Clipping'' When power unit electrical boost (mgu-k) runs out of stored energy, forcing a 'strategic power reduction on straights, it is not a failure but a calculated strategy to stay within energy deployment rules. The ERS is managed by complex software maps to balance performance and energy limits across a lap. It is not a failure but a calculated strategy energy deployment rules.

AhmerBaig
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Badger
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 03:53
Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 22:32
diffuser wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 20:41


Like Vegas and Monza that RBR won in 2025?

Anyways I think it's gonna be good enough to win races. if there is a difference between Merc and Honda PU as a whole in 2025, it wasn't more than .05%.

Not a huge fan of that guy. Stuff he says isn't anything new. Stuff like Honda had to completely repackage the PU to fit int the chassis is a little exaggerated. The rules really force the positioning of most parts. All he could really ask is positioning of the radiator/intercooler inlets/outlets and the air intake in the airbox. Even then the compressor has to be near the rear of the ICE. I think the AM will be making the intercooler, I know they make the radiators.
Yes, the Honda deployment was particularly bad in Vegas.
https://i.postimg.cc/7PScMVB9/derate.png
You can clearly see that the Honda derates much earlier than the Mercedes. It's consistent throughout the race albeit slightly better in the second stint.
That's funny, Max pulls away, his engineer get on the radio on lap 11 and says "Max your gap is 1.7 seconds!". Max slows down to help Russell tow to fight Norris and you choose that lap. Lot of cat and mouse going on in races, switching of power modes, etc. Plus When you're leading the race there is no slip stream ... look at lap 44 when Max is closer to col. You can see Max is deploying in different places.
You can pick almost any lap in the first stint and it will look like that. Max certainly never slowed to tow anyone, rubbish.

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Badger wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 13:43
diffuser wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 03:53
Badger wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 22:32

Yes, the Honda deployment was particularly bad in Vegas.
https://i.postimg.cc/7PScMVB9/derate.png
You can clearly see that the Honda derates much earlier than the Mercedes. It's consistent throughout the race albeit slightly better in the second stint.
That's funny, Max pulls away, his engineer get on the radio on lap 11 and says "Max your gap is 1.7 seconds!". Max slows down to help Russell tow to fight Norris and you choose that lap. Lot of cat and mouse going on in races, switching of power modes, etc. Plus When you're leading the race there is no slip stream ... look at lap 44 when Max is closer to col. You can see Max is deploying in different places.
You can pick almost any lap in the first stint and it will look like that. Max certainly never slowed to tow anyone, rubbish.
He is definitely reminded about the gap by the engineer. That is recorded
Then his lap pace drops by .5 of second, then goes back up.
Like I said Max has no slip stream, leading the race, vs Norris that has two early on then just one later, after Russell pits. That makes a huge difference.

Badger
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 21:42
Badger wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 13:43
diffuser wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 03:53


That's funny, Max pulls away, his engineer get on the radio on lap 11 and says "Max your gap is 1.7 seconds!". Max slows down to help Russell tow to fight Norris and you choose that lap. Lot of cat and mouse going on in races, switching of power modes, etc. Plus When you're leading the race there is no slip stream ... look at lap 44 when Max is closer to col. You can see Max is deploying in different places.
You can pick almost any lap in the first stint and it will look like that. Max certainly never slowed to tow anyone, rubbish.
He is definitely reminded about the gap by the engineer. That is recorded
Then his lap pace drops by .5 of second, then goes back up.
Like I said Max has no slip stream, leading the race, vs Norris that has two early on then just one later, after Russell pits. That makes a huge difference.
Of course he is being reminded about the gap :lol: He's leading. Why would you assume being told about a gap means, "slow down and give the tow"? What a weird assumption. Why did he pull away from George in the first stint if he wanted to tow him?

Just look at the derating, ignore the top speed. You can clearly see that Max's acceleration stops earlier than Lando on several of the straights, that's because he stops deploying, not slipstream.

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diffuser
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Badger wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 15:47
diffuser wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 21:42
Badger wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 13:43

You can pick almost any lap in the first stint and it will look like that. Max certainly never slowed to tow anyone, rubbish.
He is definitely reminded about the gap by the engineer. That is recorded
Then his lap pace drops by .5 of second, then goes back up.
Like I said Max has no slip stream, leading the race, vs Norris that has two early on then just one later, after Russell pits. That makes a huge difference.
Of course he is being reminded about the gap :lol: He's leading. Why would you assume being told about a gap means, "slow down and give the tow"? What a weird assumption. Why did he pull away from George in the first stint if he wanted to tow him?

Just look at the derating, ignore the top speed. You can clearly see that Max's acceleration stops earlier than Lando on several of the straights, that's because he stops deploying, not slipstream.
If you give a tow to Russell, who is in a slower car than the RBR and you're not concerned of him passing you, you negate the DRS speed difference between Russell and Norris and in that way help Russell keep Norris behind. That is why you do that. It's the whole strategy behind a DRS train. It also helps keep Norris in dirty air and increase wear on his tires the whole time he is there. I would also guess it's why Russell pitted so early (the earliest he could in his pit window), just to get out from between them and into clean air.
Image

This is lap 45, You can clearly see that Max is performing lift and coast into turn 14 while Norris is not. Norris is just coming off the throttle and braking while max is lifting off the throttle, waiting 1 or 2 seconds and then braking. It is not running out of deployment, it's more about saving tires. We know the McLaren has a tire advantage.
Image

Anyway, this stuff is all highly speculative, which is why I didn’t want to start snipping graphs of it. There are so many different things going on during a race—drivers are rarely driving flat out lap after lap.

I watch a lot of races just from the driver onboard cameras. Alonso will switch deployment strategies easily five times a race (stuff like STRAT 11, STRAT 5, etc.). That doesn’t count the times he uses the deployment override, which is a button he can press and hold to keep the MGU-K deploying until, well, there’s no more electricity if he wants.

So trying to judge how much deployment a PU has from a series of laps in a race, based on the data we have, is impossible. Plus, when you’re leading a race, you never deplete your battery—you always keep plenty in reserve to defend if you need to.

This brings me back full circle to the YouTube video. The only reason I thought the deployment comment was interesting was because I thought the guy said, “The consensus in the F1 paddock is that Honda has…”. That carries far more weight than you or I looking at F1 tempo data, because they have much more complex ways of measuring each other’s deployment. This is now the opinion of people who have data of all cars that they have compared.

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hollus
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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A car speculation thread for the AMR26 has been opened over here:

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 0#p1312860

Feel free to discuss leaks and theories about the car there. Or here, nothing wrong with using this thead eiter.
TANSTAAFL

TyreSlip
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Wild rumour if true... solid-state batteries for the new Honda power unit?

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ho ... /10784997/

This would be a game changer if it worked. Without additional anode material, there would be weight and size savings with a solid-state design.

erikejw
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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I, by the other hand are realistically optimistic 💪😄
diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 11:04
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:45
diffuser wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:20


Positive messages about anything, when there is nothing to reference against is meaningless. I'm not saying they're gonna be good, bad or indifferent. You just don't know how fast it us until you see the competition on the track.
Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.
In a sport where .5 of a second per lap edge at 1 track could turn into a .5 second deficit at another. Where those adantages or deficits could be coming from a million places. What about a team that is one of the best for 6 months, then loses it and still cannot figure it out 2 years later. How do you calculate that from a rumor?

I am optimistic but realistic.

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diffuser
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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erikejw wrote:
17 Dec 2025, 19:13
I, by the other hand are realistically optimistic 💪😄
diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 11:04
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:45


Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.
In a sport where .5 of a second per lap edge at 1 track could turn into a .5 second deficit at another. Where those adantages or deficits could be coming from a million places. What about a team that is one of the best for 6 months, then loses it and still cannot figure it out 2 years later. How do you calculate that from a rumor?

I am optimistic but realistic.
LoL

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Chuckjr
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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I asked AI what the performance advantages were for solid state over lithium ion batteries for F1 and its reply was fascinating as I didn't understand why it could be such a big advantage...but holy smokes it could be. The most intriguing portion of what it said was in regards to recharge rates. It's a good read and educational. Should this pan out for Honda could we dare to dream of a Alonso championship?? :)

><><><<><<><<<><><><><><><><

The rumor about Honda developing solid-state batteries for its 2026 power unit (supplying Aston Martin) stems from recent reports and forum discussions, though it's not officially confirmed—Honda has announced production of solid-state tech for EVs starting in early 2025, and speculation links this to F1 for a potential edge.

If true, this would represent a significant leap, as solid-state batteries use a solid electrolyte instead of the liquid one in lithium-ion cells, enabling several key advantages in the high-stakes F1 environment where every gram, watt, and millisecond counts. Here's a breakdown of the main benefits compared to the lithium-ion setups other teams will likely use:

1. Higher Energy Density Solid-state batteries can pack 20-50% more energy into the same volume or weight than lithium-ion equivalents, potentially allowing Honda to store the required ERS energy (up to ~9MJ per lap under 2026 rules) in a lighter package.

In F1, this translates to weight savings of several kilograms, improving overall car balance, acceleration, and fuel efficiency—critical when the minimum car weight is set at 798kg (including driver) and every ounce affects lap times.
For other teams on lithium-ion, they'd need bulkier or heavier batteries to hit the same capacity, potentially compromising aero or requiring trade-offs in chassis design.

2. Faster Charging and Discharging (Power Density) These batteries support quicker energy recovery and deployment, with recharge rates potentially double that of lithium-ion, aligning perfectly with the 2026 emphasis on manual override modes for electrical boosts during overtakes (up to 350kW bursts).

In practice, this means more responsive ERS activation, like instant power surges out of corners or during qualifying, without the thermal throttling that can plague liquid-electrolyte cells under sustained high loads.
Lithium-ion batteries, while improved, have slower ion movement through liquid, leading to potential delays or reduced peak power in extreme F1 cycles of rapid charge-discharge.

3. Improved Safety and ReliabilityWithout flammable liquid electrolytes, solid-state designs are far less prone to thermal runaway, leaks, or fires—vital in F1 where crashes and high vibrations are common, and batteries must withstand G-forces up to 50G.

This could reduce the need for heavy protective casings, further aiding weight reduction, and minimize downtime from failures during races or testing.

Conventional lithium-ion packs require more robust cooling and safety systems to manage risks, adding complexity and potential points of failure for other teams.

4. Better Thermal Management and Durability Solid-state batteries operate efficiently across a wider temperature range and degrade slower over cycles, which is advantageous in F1's grueling conditions (e.g., hot tracks like Bahrain or wet ones like Spa).

They could enable more consistent performance throughout a stint without as much cooling overhead, potentially allowing for slimmer radiators or better aero packaging.

Lithium-ion alternatives might need more aggressive liquid cooling, which adds weight and could lead to power derating if overheating occurs.

Overall, if Honda pulls this off, it could give Aston Martin a notable performance advantage in electrical deployment and efficiency, especially in races where energy management is key (e.g., tracks with heavy braking zones). However, solid-state tech is still emerging, with challenges like high production costs and scaling for F1's bespoke needs—rumors suggest it's a "game changer" if it works, but reliability in a race environment remains unproven.

Other manufacturers like Mercedes have explored it via F1 tech transfer, but no one's confirmed deployment for 2026 yet.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/5BFKBAspRN01IaYftzCk0BtjM
Watching F1 since 1986.

madridista
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 18:08
Listen to the part where they talk about how Honda has been #1 over the last 4 years on Battery and energy recovery ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkgYXba331I
this guy posts such slop vids, recycling the same bs over and over again. just reading off a wall of LLM text