2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Andres125sx]

Alonso did nothing magnificent today. McLaren finisht where they should.

Did you watch Hamilton who was unable to even attempt a pass on Raikonnen? That was despite they all were sooo sloooow due to Vettel problem McLaren did several laps faster than the top Mercedes and Ferrari guys, so probably around 2 seconds slower than possible. Lewis was unable to try a pass despite being around 2 seconds faster.

OTOH Alonso managed to pass Sainz who only was some tenths slower than him, if you can´t see anything magnificent today then I´m sorry for you

lol let the haters hate mate, Alonso did fantastic today, magnificient drive, great performance and above all, fantastic to see Alonso all smiles and really genuinly happy. And then there's an update still on the way for SPA. Finally light on the horizon.

I must say though, i admit Honda was right when they said this was essentially their actual first year in F1 in regards to the fact they completely changed the engine. taking that into account, it gives a different perspective, especially if they're going to be able to have a solid p6 or p7 capability right now, that's quite the achievement if you compare that to Renault for example. September should bring spec4 update iirc, so i'm very curious how the path is going to unfold. maybe we'll see some surprises still.

Hopefully!!

But I wouldn´t bet for solid p6 or p7 capability yet. This was Hungary, next are Spa and Monza, huge power dependant tracks

[BosF1]

15 years ago I would have never imagined that I could and would be happy with a P6 for Macca.

[Manoah2u]

Did you watch Hamilton who was unable to even attempt a pass on Raikonnen? That was despite they all were sooo sloooow due to Vettel problem McLaren did several laps faster than the top Mercedes and Ferrari guys, so probably around 2 seconds slower than possible. Lewis was unable to try a pass despite being around 2 seconds faster.

OTOH Alonso managed to pass Sainz who only was some tenths slower than him, if you can´t see anything magnificent today then I´m sorry for you

lol let the haters hate mate, Alonso did fantastic today, magnificient drive, great performance and above all, fantastic to see Alonso all smiles and really genuinly happy. And then there's an update still on the way for SPA. Finally light on the horizon.

I must say though, i admit Honda was right when they said this was essentially their actual first year in F1 in regards to the fact they completely changed the engine. taking that into account, it gives a different perspective, especially if they're going to be able to have a solid p6 or p7 capability right now, that's quite the achievement if you compare that to Renault for example. September should bring spec4 update iirc, so i'm very curious how the path is going to unfold. maybe we'll see some surprises still.

Hopefully!!

But I wouldn´t bet for solid p6 or p7 capability yet. This was Hungary, next are Spa and Monza, huge power dependant tracks

The only thing i think was really missing from the equasian was Force India. I also don't know what happened to Williams as of late though. But looking at Renault, they were nowhere past weekend, and since the Renault also has a power defecit, they sould have been rather higher up instead compared to normal circumstances.

A matter of fact, i actually expected Mclaren to do worse this weekend exactly because of that. All i imagined was the field to be closer together ; meaning the leading teams would have less of a gap towards the midfield.

I genuinly expected teams like Renault, Williams and Haas to be much closer to the front in a tight battle, and Mclaren somewhere in there hoping to see them score some points.

Instead, Mclaren was doing absolutely fantastic and so did Toro Rosso relatively speaking. RedBull the same.

I know Force India normally is more up front, and so should Williams so that distorts the picture a bit.
Let's say that in normal circumstances,

the order is : Mercedes > Ferrari > RedBull > Force India > Williams > Renault > Haas > Toro Rosso > Sauber.
I must say i don't expect Mclaren to suddenly be Between RedBull and Williams, but rather see them between
Williams and Renault at best. Fighting for the final points.

But then again, the Mclaren chassis seems like one of the very best, and if Honda's updates are finally bringing some money to the table, then why not notch that up a bit? Most teams will start focusing more and more on next season anyway as of now. With a little luck, after SPA, when the new engine spec is well settled, perhaps we can see them fight with Force India.

There's bound to be some more controversy at the front and some incidents, so with a little luck, there's some more points and places to be gained. With a lot of luck, they can end the season on a high with perhaps a top 5 finish by Brazil or Abu Dhabi. Well, atleast for Alonso. I still have no regards for VanDoorne, i don't see him any different as i see Palmer, Di Resta, Liuzzi, Ericsson, Mehri, etc. I still expect to see me proven otherwise, but really, he's as spectacular, exciting and surprising as a doormat or a bathroomtile, despite the inadequate machinery given. If we were to skip Mclaren being Mclaren and look at it as a budget midfielder like Sauber once was, being a 'step up' class for more one day, then i see Alonso as he always has been; exciting, promising, and going places. Whereas i see Vandoorne as the machine it's driving; inadequate to perform on the highest level. Hell, he makes Kovalainen look like Nigel Mansell or Nelson Piquet in comparison.

I get Mclaren won't replace him for next year, and i'm confident Alonso will stay for 2018 to give it 'one last chance'. But after midseason 2018, i think all excuses are off, no bs, full honesty. By then, he needs to live up to the promises and claims he supposedly is a future WDC, as there are no indications whatsoever he is any of that right now.

I don't care a single ounce about other classes. Hulk has been a giant in other classes. Palmer supposedly too. So have many others. In F1, only F1 counts. In comparison, Ocon looks miles and miles better to me. And frankly, i think even Stroll looks to have more potential. And Sainz imho is miles ahead of VanDoorne at this moment. I genuinly wonder how Sainz would cope against Alonso in the Mclaren. I've seen some fantastic driving of Sainz, last weekend was another of that. I really hope there is still place for him in F1. Would hate to see talent like that get flushed out to get replaced or outlived by people like Kvyat, Ericsson, Wehrlein and Palmer.

[Sayeman]

lol let the haters hate mate, Alonso did fantastic today, magnificient drive, great performance and above all, fantastic to see Alonso all smiles and really genuinly happy. And then there's an update still on the way for SPA. Finally light on the horizon.

I must say though, i admit Honda was right when they said this was essentially their actual first year in F1 in regards to the fact they completely changed the engine. taking that into account, it gives a different perspective, especially if they're going to be able to have a solid p6 or p7 capability right now, that's quite the achievement if you compare that to Renault for example. September should bring spec4 update iirc, so i'm very curious how the path is going to unfold. maybe we'll see some surprises still.

Hopefully!!

But I wouldn´t bet for solid p6 or p7 capability yet. This was Hungary, next are Spa and Monza, huge power dependant tracks

The only thing i think was really missing from the equasian was Force India. I also don't know what happened to Williams as of late though. But looking at Renault, they were nowhere past weekend, and since the Renault also has a power defecit, they sould have been rather higher up instead compared to normal circumstances.

A matter of fact, i actually expected Mclaren to do worse this weekend exactly because of that. All i imagined was the field to be closer together ; meaning the leading teams would have less of a gap towards the midfield.

I genuinly expected teams like Renault, Williams and Haas to be much closer to the front in a tight battle, and Mclaren somewhere in there hoping to see them score some points.

Instead, Mclaren was doing absolutely fantastic and so did Toro Rosso relatively speaking. RedBull the same.

I know Force India normally is more up front, and so should Williams so that distorts the picture a bit.
Let's say that in normal circumstances,

the order is : Mercedes > Ferrari > RedBull > Force India > Williams > Renault > Haas > Force India > Sauber.
I must say i don't expect Mclaren to suddenly be Between RedBull and Williams, but rather see them between
Williams and Renault at best. Fighting for the final points.

But then again, the Mclaren chassis seems like one of the very best, and if Honda's updates are finally bringing some money to the table, then why not notch that up a bit? Most teams will start focusing more and more on next season anyway as of now. With a little luck, after SPA, when the new engine spec is well settled, perhaps we can see them fight with Force India.

There's bound to be some more controversy at the front and some incidents, so with a little luck, there's some more points and places to be gained. With a lot of luck, they can end the season on a high with perhaps a top 5 finish by Brazil or Abu Dhabi. Well, atleast for Alonso. I still have no regards for VanDoorne, i don't see him any different as i see Palmer, Di Resta, Liuzzi, Ericsson, Mehri, etc. I still expect to see me proven otherwise, but really, he's as spectacular, exciting and surprising as a doormat or a bathroomtile, despite the inadequate machinery given. If we were to skip Mclaren being Mclaren and look at it as a budget midfielder like Sauber once was, being a 'step up' class for more one day, then i see Alonso as he always has been; exciting, promising, and going places. Whereas i see Vandoorne as the machine it's driving; inadequate to perform on the highest level. Hell, he makes Kovalainen look like Nigel Mansell or Nelson Piquet in comparison.

I get Mclaren won't replace him for next year, and i'm confident Alonso will stay for 2018 to give it 'one last chance'. But after midseason 2018, i think all excuses are off, no bs, full honesty. By then, he needs to live up to the promises and claims he supposedly is a future WDC, as there are no indications whatsoever he is any of that right now.

I don't care a single ounce about other classes. Hulk has been a giant in other classes. Palmer supposedly too. So have many others. In F1, only F1 counts. In comparison, Ocon looks miles and miles better to me. And frankly, i think even Stroll looks to have more potential. And Sainz imho is miles ahead of VanDoorne at this moment. I genuinly wonder how Sainz would cope against Alonso in the Mclaren. I've seen some fantastic driving of Sainz, last weekend was another of that. I really hope there is still place for him in F1. Would hate to see talent like that get flushed out to get replaced or outlived by people like Kvyat, Ericsson, Wehrlein and Palmer.

To me Vandoorne is more like gentle racer rather than a fighter like Alonso, Verstappen or Ricciardo. I know Honda is down on power but i rarely see him making any overtake in the races. He loses positions at the start and lacks that aggression that Alonso has.

He is a mix of Massa and Button, on their own they will match Alonso or Lewis's lap times but when it comes to head to head he doesn't have that killer touch.

If we compare Alonso and Vandoorne to Motogp stars i would say Alonso is Marquez/Rossi while Vandoorne is Lorenzo.

[ZakB]

Vandoorne is just slow, Button was much closer to Alonso. McLaren should have signed Hulkenberg, he's amazing.

[RS200E]

Decent result, was quite happy for them after the race. Alonso seemed very happy too. Hoping in the holiday Honda can unlock more power in time for Spa. I'm sure I heard Alonso say that Spa might not be as bad for them as the interviewer made out.

[RS200E]

Vandoorne is just slow, Button was much closer to Alonso. McLaren should have signed Hulkenberg, he's amazing.

Wasn't Waffle just behind Alonso before coming into the pits and nearly running over the front jack man?

[diffuser]

He was when Saints was holding ALO back.

[ZakB]

Vandoorne is just slow, Button was much closer to Alonso. McLaren should have signed Hulkenberg, he's amazing.

Wasn't Waffle just behind Alonso before coming into the pits and nearly running over the front jack man?

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... f=3&dr1=14

He seems like a nice guy don't get me wrong, but I highly doubt he's McLaren material. Let's wait and see how he compares to Alonso after the summer break.

[kaepernickus]

Vandoorne is just slow, Button was much closer to Alonso. McLaren should have signed Hulkenberg, he's amazing.

Button and Hulk have been in F1 forever.
Would you have picked first year Hulk/Button as well over Stoffel?

People should give Rookies 1-2 years before comparing them to some of the best, but also longest serving F1 drivers.

Also let's not forget that Hulk had quite a hard time against Perez, who had been dismissed by McLaren before.

We might have missed out on Alonso, Button or Hulk if they would have been judged and dismissed after only half a season.

Vandoorne has already made great strides since the start of the season, so let's see how he looks at the end of the season.

[RS200E]

I agree he needs more time and we shouldn't be so quick to judge this rookie against the best in this car. Maybe the 2018 car will be good starting point. I'm sure if Alsonso destroys him in 2018 Waffle will be sacked.

I don't think the lap time chart tells the whole story. It looked like Waffle had a more disrupted and difficult race than Alonso.

[froggy]

I tend to agree with giving Stoff some time, but in contrast, Hamilton didnt need ANY time getting to speed with F1 and Alonso back in 2007.

[zeph]

I tend to agree with giving Stoff some time, but in contrast, Hamilton didnt need ANY time getting to speed with F1 and Alonso back in 2007.

Different time. Back then unlimited testing was still allowed, and IIRC, Hamilton had actually lodged 10000+ km in the car, way more than Alonso had.

[Manoah2u]

Vandoorne is just slow, Button was much closer to Alonso. McLaren should have signed Hulkenberg, he's amazing.

Wasn't Waffle just behind Alonso before coming into the pits and nearly running over the front jack man?

Exactly. Button's one-off Mclaren run was not representative, especially since mentally he's thoroughly said goodbye to Formula 1, but the most underrated driver Button has always been exciting. He's held his own magnificiently against Hamilton, not an easy feat in a team built and established around Hamilton. Matter of fact, he actually ended up in front of him in the WDC standings more than one season in the same material. And then Alonso popped up and people expected button to be anhialated but he stood his ground, was atleast just as fast despite being visibly done with it all.

And yes, 'Waffle' almost ran over the front jackman lol. That was very amateurish. I don't know, he just reminds me a whole lot too of that former also highly 'regarded' future f1 superdriver 'Davide Valsecchi' whom never got to drive an f1 car [from my personal point of view, thank god he didnt.].

Even though Mclaren is not on their level right now, fact is, Mclaren is Mclaren however you look at it, they're a big team established for long in the ranks with Ferrari, you could say even moreso than even Mercedes AMG at this point, and RedBull. Actually, Mercedes at the moment is actually like how Mclaren should have been. I do think that if Mercedes never had taken over Brawn, and thus never departed with Mclaren, then we would have seen not Mercedes AMG as dominating right now, but actually it would have been Mclaren. Imagine how sore that must be.

but if's are ifs, and so it doesnt make sense going on about that though.

fact is, Mclaren belongs in the top row. It's Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes, RedBull where the game [should] be. And quite frankly, Stoffel is hardly showing being worth belonging in a team of that category or calibre.
I'm confident he would be completely ran over by any of those other topteam drivers right now.

IF Mclaren has a winning package next year, i'm really thinking they should replace Stoffel with a capable driver, as i'm very doubtfull he can keep up. It could be as shameful as when Luca Badoer replaced Massa in Ferrari after his accident.

Matter of fact, if i had any say at all in things in Mclaren, i would immediately arrange that no matter what happens with the car/engine for 2018, i'd have signed either Sainz, Bottas, Raikkonen, Massa, Grosjean, Ocon or Perez - assuming Vettel, Verstappen, Hamilton, Ricciardo are out of option due to their contracts and/or more logical choice to be at either Ferrari/Mercedes/RedBull.

I think from all of those, i'd pick Ricciardo as my nr.1 objective. I think Fernando Alonso and Daniel Ricciardo in a WDC and WCC capable Mclaren would be absolutely stellar.

[Manoah2u]

I tend to agree with giving Stoff some time, but in contrast, Hamilton didnt need ANY time getting to speed with F1 and Alonso back in 2007.

Different time. Back then unlimited testing was still allowed, and IIRC, Hamilton had actually lodged 10000+ km in the car, way more than Alonso had.

You can't defend being talented or being talentless with mileage. it plays a part to a certain degree. By now, Stoffel should have shown better.

Not that i wanna glorify Verstappen, but that boy was immediately on it. And exactly that was what everybody was shouting from the rooftops about Vandoorne, and that is exactly what nobody has seen from him in any way whatsoever.