traction control and wet weather

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Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
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Re: traction control and wet weather

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Ok. I just don't see what you'd be gaining with something fancy like that. Nor am I following how this would impact short vs long accelerator throw or spring.

If anything I'd say just use the shift lights you already have as an index for what revs to hold the tires at when you first launch the car. That could be useful. Adding more visuals is a distraction.

In terms of traction control and driving in the wet though.. trying to follow LEDs or LCDs is going to be much slower and less effective than just watching the track and the car rotation.

If the rear starts to break lose and you just barely sense some amount of overrotation in a turn, with the amount of steering lock and the yaw acceleration of these cars you have to twitch correct for it REALLY quickly. It's much more natural to gauge car rotation from the surroundings than some fancy LCD screen.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: traction control and wet weather

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Jersey Tom wrote:It's much more natural to gauge car rotation from the surroundings than some fancy LCD screen.
Well, if LCD is too much what about some kind of force feedback, like the one in game controllers? It could be located in the pedal or in the seat or in the wheel. BTW, I wonder why these kind of haptic interfaces aren't used in motorsports.

We also spoke time ago about a HUD display in the helmet: most members thought it wouldn't be useful and would stress the neck of the driver, but it could be a projection system. Anyway, I still think it was a good idea (it could be used, for example, in the rain, to show you the edges of the track or the position of nearby cars): you have to learn that sometimes (few times, I concede) your idea is good but your ability to convince people can be not equally good.

Anyway, I agree with Jersey Tom on the idea that you use your eyes and ears to control the car. He forgot to mention that your, ehem, butt plays an even more important role, or I was taught so by my aircraft instructor: good pilots fly with their @sses. :) The same "principle" works in karting too.

On a side note, I would say that a major problem after TC was forbidden is that the car "downforce abilities" are extremely sensitive to yaw. Actually, I attribute to that the Massa incident in the next to last race. So, another gadget that could be useful (against J-Tom objections) could be a thing that warned you that you're about to lose downforce.

A warning system could be something extremely simple, like a system incorporated into the vertical wire that some drivers use (in the nose of the car) to point the car: the wire (or bar) could move, twist, vibrate or whatever to warn you. After all, you have the bar right in front of your eyes, you even wouldn't have to be distracted looking down to the steering wheel. The same reasoning applies to force-feedback. That would comply with "being incorporated into the surroundings" as J-Tom asks. I don't know if this "dissolves" the problem, I hope so.

Modbaraban: I love your sense of humour. Sorry, Belatti for my little joke on the main idea of the thread, we already grew up, it's just that we like to play jokes on, ehem, younger people... like Hamilton. :D
Ciro

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: traction control and wet weather

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Ciro Pabón wrote:
Jersey Tom wrote:It's much more natural to gauge car rotation from the surroundings than some fancy LCD screen.
......
Anyway, I agree with Jersey Tom on the idea that you use your eyes and ears to control the car. He forgot to mention that your, ehem, butt plays an even more important role, or I was taught so by my aircraft instructor: good pilots fly with their @sses. :) The same "principle" works in karting too.
......
Modbaraban: I love your sense of humour. Sorry, Belatti for my little joke on the main idea of the post, we already grew up, it's just that we like to play jokes on younger people... :D
Agree 100% with the natural gauge of a car rotation/accel from the surroundings and also agree 100% with the ass control (Carlos Reutemann always said he felt the car with his ass).
But let me say that there is a thing called "visual memory" and also that while the driver looks to the track, lets say "directly", his eyes are also seeing other surroundings "indirectly" and those info is saved in your "ram memory".

Let me say also that I´m quite good with racing simulators and that a lot of info from the LCD display the game shows while I race is stored in my mind to setup the car myself.
And a driver is 1000 times more trained than me for doing that!!!
Senna, for example, was a driver that could tell you the RPM for every part of a track with just a couple of laps driving a new circuit, and don´t tell me he was not looking at the track :wink: .

So, I think adding more visuals is a distraction... FOR RACING, but not for testing something specifical.

To end this, Im glad we have a very interesting discussion, exchanging points of view without turning aggressive, something weird these days here :D

Ciro, Modbaraban, never let your jokes die :D
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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Shaddock
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006, 14:39
Location: UK

Re: traction control and wet weather

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It does not have to be visual aid it could be audible warning that the driver receives via his headset. There was talk that some teams/drivers use this to remind them to change gear as they approach the rev limit.

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: traction control and wet weather

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Shaddock wrote:It does not have to be visual aid it could be audible warning that the driver receives via his headset. There was talk that some teams/drivers use this to remind them to change gear as they approach the rev limit.
WINNER!

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Ciro Pabón
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Re: traction control and wet weather

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Conceptual wrote:
Shaddock wrote:It does not have to be visual aid it could be audible warning that the driver receives via his headset. There was talk that some teams/drivers use this to remind them to change gear as they approach the rev limit.
WINNER!
Agreed. There are no impossible things, only unable men.
Ciro

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: traction control and wet weather

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The greatest F1 driver ever, Juan Montoya, said that the McLaren made a beep in the earpiece to tell them when to change gear. I can't see why they don't do it for other things.

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: traction control and wet weather

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Ray wrote:The greatest F1 driver ever, Juan Montoya...
Do you live in Columbus or in Colombia? :)
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

bizadfar
bizadfar
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Joined: 03 Jan 2007, 15:51

Re: traction control and wet weather

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what do you call those visuals in a think film or something projected. Wouldn't that be cool (or over the top) if the info "LCD"w as placed in the driver's visor.

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: traction control and wet weather

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bizadfar wrote:what do you call those visuals in a think film or something projected. Wouldn't that be cool (or over the top) if the info "LCD"w as placed in the driver's visor.
I have had this conversation with a friend several times, and I am simply blown-away that it isnt done already. The projectors that are available today, or even the OLED's that the UDC manufacture could easily be attached to the inside of the visor.

http://www.universaldisplay.com/default ... tentID=608
http://www.universaldisplay.com/default ... tentID=591

It could have all kinds of things. Gauges, revs, gear, traction settings, even a virtual racing line that is overlayed onto the track so the driver can "see" the best racing line, leading to better setup.

With all of the money being invested into the continual development of all things F1, this by far is the most dumbfounding thing that I have come across...

Chris