2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

[siskue2005]

When was Kimi screwed up from lead to let Vet win?

As you were talking about 2017 and 2018
Monaco 2017
Hungary 2017

At Monaco Kimi had pole, he was doing 1.17+ laps before his pit stop, Vettel did 1.15s after Kimi pitted. Kimi had every chance to win.

the pitted Kimi into traffic ...that was why he was slower after pitstop (when in this era undercut is faster 99%)
They did that allowed Vettel 4 laps at front to overcut him....it was pretty obvious.

At Hungry Kimi was never in the lead. The crooked steering wheel was costing Vettel about a second but it wasn't enough in Hungary to make a pass. Hamilton couldn't even have a single pass attempt when he caught up with Vettel and Kimi.

They surely asked Kimi to not overtake there

Vettel waited many laps behind Kimi China last year.

So what Lewis waited 50 laps behind Bottas in Hungary 2017 and graceful gave it back when he couldnt overtake Kimi

This year spent his last 25 laps withing 2 seconds of Kimi at Austria.

Lewis was out of the race and there was no point in doing the switch

At germany he waited 10 unnecessary laps with fresh tires behind Kimi.

that was a cokup created by Ferrari themselves.....they used Kimi as a roadblock for Lewis, but it backfired

Bottas had a P2 at Silverstone, they didn't pit him but Lewis and Bottas ended up 4th. That was the only way for Mercedes to bring Lewis in front, ....

They didnt Pit Lewis and Bottas which then put Bottas in the lead.... that was great strategy ....rather than flowing with the flow, if only Bottas could hold on to it, he would have won that race. How is that the only way to bring Lewis up? you do realize that if Vettel had not pitted they would have pitted Bottas instead.

[Juzh]

Raikkonen vs Vettel

(click link for high quality)
https://streamable.com/4iz6c



Couple of things:
- Raikkonen definitely gains time as a result of using Vettel's slipstream, very obvious on some parts of the track
- Rai gains 0.06s already before turn 1, his advantage is increased following the next straight after vettel gets a brief oversteer exiting the chicane
- rai quite a bit ahead into second chicane
- Vettel gains lots of time back trough both lesmos, especially lesmo 2
- Rai gains another 1 tenth on back straight, just before braking for ascary. Since he kinda messes up 2nd lesmo's exit this is even more incredible
- Rai faster trough parabolica on a tighter line, kinda what we've seen troughout the weekend, probably a result of vettel missing inside apex

Without slipstream this would have been a matter of thousands between them.

Rai pole lap with telemetry
https://streamable.com/et8fm

[matt_b]

I think this is the main point, Kimi had the perfect tow while Sebastian was too far from Hamilton, with such a small difference between all of them this is the point where Sebastian has lost the pole.

Anyway, it has been an awesome pole, Mercedes was closer than some people expected and Bottas played perfectly well the second driver role. Tomorrow Sebastian is in a very difficult place because Hamilton can overtake him in the start. I think that Ferrari should try to make a clean start, letting Kimi maintain the position in the first lap while Sebastian tries to cover his own position. Try to switch the positions as soon as the race starts would be a great mistake because Lewis would benefict from this situation.

By the way, awesome work by Carlos though tomorrow he will suffer a lot with a slow car on the straights.

I think that is difficult to design. Vettel usually has a fast start and Kimi is relatively cautious goin into turn one. Vettel will most likely get an opportunity in turn one. Could become very interesting in the first chicane.

but Monza first corner is nowhere like Spa, it is really difficult to overtake from the dirty side.....i think it has never been done before (correct me if i am wrong) only Lewis lost in 2014 and 2016 when he had those dreadful starts

other than that i dont remember anyone done that in last 10 15 years legitly (correct me if i am wrong)

Jenson did it to Alonso in 2010 from the dirty side but its a high risk aggressive move though that even cost Jenson some rear floor damage.

[NathanOlder]

Sky commentators talking about why vettel is pissed off. Saying he towed kimi to pole. But vettel was perfectly placed behind Lewis for the same tow.

He had 2x the distance to hamilton than kini had to vettel.

And who's fault was that ?

[piast9]

Raikkonen vs Vettel

(click link for high quality)
https://streamable.com/4iz6c

I have no idea how do you think Raikkonen got a tow. The distance is big and their speeds at the end of the straighst are practically identical. Additionally, if there was a tow on the straights then Raikkonen would lose time again in each of the turns.

[siskue2005]

Sky commentators talking about why vettel is pissed off. Saying he towed kimi to pole. But vettel was perfectly placed behind Lewis for the same tow.

He had 2x the distance to hamilton than kini had to vettel.

And who's fault was that ?

<sarcastic mode on> Ferrari's fault..."we need to talk later" </sarcastic mode off>

[siskue2005]

Raikkonen vs Vettel

(click link for high quality)
https://streamable.com/4iz6c

I have no idea how do you think Raikkonen got a tow. The distance is big and their speeds at the end of the straighst are practically identical. Additionally, if there was a tow on the straights then Raikkonen would lose time again in each of the turns.

exactly what i was saying before

[Juzh]

Sky commentators talking about why vettel is pissed off. Saying he towed kimi to pole. But vettel was perfectly placed behind Lewis for the same tow.

He had 2x the distance to hamilton than kini had to vettel.

And who's fault was that ?

I'm not going into wrestling match here mate, it's all kinda obvious no?

[Juzh]

Raikkonen vs Vettel

(click link for high quality)
https://streamable.com/4iz6c

I have no idea how do you think Raikkonen got a tow. The distance is big and their speeds at the end of the straighst are practically identical. Additionally, if there was a tow on the straights then Raikkonen would lose time again in each of the turns.

Well, then RAI had some kind of magical "party" mode on his PU, because if you look at this video frame-by-frame there's no denying he gains time on the straights.

[Vanja #66]

Raikkonen vs Vettel

(click link for high quality)
https://streamable.com/4iz6c

Great stuff!

To be honest, these small speed differences could be down to fractionally smaller wing levels on Kimi's car. Looks too far away for a meaningful tow.

[LionKing]

Raikkonen vs Vettel

(click link for high quality)
https://streamable.com/4iz6c

I have no idea how do you think Raikkonen got a tow. The distance is big and their speeds at the end of the straighst are practically identical. Additionally, if there was a tow on the straights then Raikkonen would lose time again in each of the turns.

This does not make any sense.

Then why do you think the teams have been doing this tow thing? Just for the fun of it?

[Fulcrum]

Raikkonen vs Vettel

(click link for high quality)
https://streamable.com/4iz6c

I have no idea how do you think Raikkonen got a tow. The distance is big and their speeds at the end of the straighst are practically identical. Additionally, if there was a tow on the straights then Raikkonen would lose time again in each of the turns.

Well, then RAI had some kind of magical "party" mode on his PU, because if you look at this video frame-by-frame there's no denying he gains time on the straights.

Terminal speed at the end of straights is more likely due to a difference in setup. Kimi was higher in all the speedtraps than Vettel, and not just on his pole lap.

[NathanOlder]

This is what I don't understand. In my opinion they would be very stupid to let Kimi win if they have chance to swap places. Kimi doesn't have chance to win championship. So why the hell would Ferrari let him win. Maybe so for Kimi to feel good. I know that Mercedes wouldn't have such problem. Bottas used to let Hamilton twice in one race. And last year when he gave back position to Bottas in Hungary people almost called him saint but he lost only three points there.

that is what we call "give respect and take respect"
it is not about the 3 points, it is about the heart to do that.....and surely that reflected on Bottas, when the time comes Bottas will do that for him (germany he obeyed instantly)... Vettel should do that, he should respect Kimi's pole and congratulate him (which he never did...all he said was "we will talk later").
If Vettel had done any such thing in the past, then Kimi will do it even without any teamorders ....but as a prat he has proved time and time again that he would never help his teamamtes (Multi21 etc).

Come on. I am not a fan of Vettel at all but I try to be objective. Maybe in Austria this year Ferrari should have ordered Kimi to let Vettel and then Vettel gives back position so that would be very good for Vettels reputation as for Hamilton last year in Hungary. However, Ferrari didn't ask Rai to let Vettel at all. Bottas used to have 20 seconds on Hamilton and then slow down and wait for Ham to let him pass that's how much protection Hamilton has. Last year and this year there is no doubt that Hamilton had a lot more help from Bottas than Vettel from Rai.

Bottas helped Lewis more than Kimi has helped Vettel in the last 2 season,

are you broken ?

[LionKing]

Bottas helped Lewis more than Kimi has helped Vettel in the last 2 season,

are you broken ?

No, he is just stating the obvious.

[Sieper]

He had 2x the distance to hamilton than kini had to vettel.

And who's fault was that ?

I'm not going into wrestling match here mate, it's all kinda obvious no?

You know what Is kind of obvious, that Seb could have said, good job Kimi, grazie ragazzi, bella machina, papapapam Ferrari 1-2, Yes! But nooohooooo.

And do you know what is even more obvious, that Kimi will not even finish the race in front of Vettel so why not say something along the lines I just wrote.