2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[Quantum]

Read it again, veeeeryy slooowlyyy... You might understand this time...

I did, and at no stage does it mean RB had pace to match Mercedes. Not even close, are you suggesting the opposite because.....Traffic and tyres?
Now perhaps you could enlighten me on that?
Or the fact they didnt get close to the top lap time?
Or overtake a broken floored car?

[Capharol]

Read it again, veeeeryy slooowlyyy... You might understand this time...

I did, and at no stage does it mean RB had pace to match Mercedes. Not even close, are you suggesting the opposite because.....Traffic and tyres?
Now perhaps you could enlighten me on that?
Or the fact they didnt get close to the top lap time?
Or overtake a broken floored car?

sorry but you just don't wanna see others opinion do you?

you don't need to answer because i don't care much and won't be able to read it

[hollus]

This is getting personal, a few of you are just arguing in circles and just to prove the other wrong. Attack the post, not the poster is a very nice rule.

Please, keep the discussion constructive, beating the other poster into submission should not be the target here (it never works anyways).

[Quantum]

Much obliged for the intervention.

Now if someone can overcome my assertion with facts, obviously I would reconsider my position that Marko was talking nonsense.

[GhostF1]

Much obliged for the intervention.

Now if someone can overcome my assertion with facts, obviously I would reconsider my position that Marko was talking nonsense.

To be fair, your assertion is also only based on your opinion, extrapolated from loosely related articles just like everyone's rebuttals will be. So taking that stance is childish and basically locks out any notion you might agree or be open to another view..

What I do know is that in 2018 RBR had made several comments about them running with "less wing" at a multitude of circuits to compensate for the lack of engine power.

Just because they didn't have a more aggressive wing available to them in Melbourne (as Marko stated), does not mean they didn't develop the car with the knowledge the Honda would be a different scenario. I agree with godlameroso. RBR now know they can run with more aggressive wing setups (front to rear) and it is quite possible we'll see this come to fruition in the coming races.

(Sidenote: I also find it incredible we can say Honda was PU no.2 in Melbourne. Their efforts have been stunningly impressive, well done to their whole engineering team, what a feat!)

[McMika98]

Much obliged for the intervention.

Now if someone can overcome my assertion with facts, obviously I would reconsider my position that Marko was talking nonsense.

Ok please use sensible journalism and not tabloid sensationalism. Redbull did not optmise their setup at Oz neither did Ferrari, Merc nailed it. Let see what Bahrain brings.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/18/rac ... p-18-03-2/

Latest word from Marko is: Honda delivered and he wants chassis to deliver as well. However Honda have openly said they need to improve as there is still a gap. It appears that Merc have a rocket engine this year maybe few tenths on the Ferrari. Hopefully Honda can catch up

[Quantum]

Much obliged for the intervention.

Now if someone can overcome my assertion with facts, obviously I would reconsider my position that Marko was talking nonsense.

Ok please use sensible journalism and not tabloid sensationalism. Redbull did not optmise their setup at Oz neither did Ferrari, Merc nailed it. Let see what Bahrain brings.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/18/rac ... p-18-03-2/

Latest word from Marko is: Honda delivered and he wants chassis to deliver as well. However Honda have openly said they need to improve as there is still a gap. It appears that Merc have a rocket engine this year maybe few tenths on the Ferrari. Hopefully Honda can catch up

I quoted Marko...
I'm basing the opinion of Marko from articles all over the internet.
I referenced his opinion with autosport articles quoting Red Bull staff last year.

[Quantum]

Much obliged for the intervention.

Now if someone can overcome my assertion with facts, obviously I would reconsider my position that Marko was talking nonsense.

To be fair, your assertion is also only based on your opinion, extrapolated from loosely related articles just like everyone's rebuttals will be. So taking that stance is childish and basically locks out any notion you might agree or be open to another view..

What I do know is that in 2018 RBR had made several comments about them running with "less wing" at a multitude of circuits to compensate for the lack of engine power.

Just because they didn't have a more aggressive wing available to them in Melbourne (as Marko stated), does not mean they didn't develop the car with the knowledge the Honda would be a different scenario. I agree with godlameroso. RBR now know they can run with more aggressive wing setups (front to rear) and it is quite possible we'll see this come to fruition in the coming races.

(Sidenote: I also find it incredible we can say Honda was PU no.2 in Melbourne. Their efforts have been stunningly impressive, well done to their whole engineering team, what a feat!)

I agree, Honda's progress is fantastic.
It's a positive omen for the team and one that has come at great cost to Honda.

My comments werent loosely based on comments from team members.
They were based directly on what they said.
Even in 2018, the Honda was already more powerful than the Renault and improving rapidly.
That's damning if what Marko has said is true, do you not agree?

[godlameroso]

That's what I'm thinking.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

Bottas finished 22 seconds ahead of Verstappen, 22.520 divided by 58 laps gives .388 seconds, which is the average gap between Bottas and Verstappen on this track. I think that is the true gap, and closing that will give them parity in the race.

I dont think that's representative at all.

Bottas was 16 seconds clear of Verstappen after 24 laps!

Who was also behind the wounded horse.

If we look objectively at the laps where Bottas and Verstappen were both in clean air the gaps were very close, right around .3 seconds.

Furthermore, previous to Bottas's fastest lap, he slowed down 2 seconds off the pace, it was a glory run. Verstappen did no such antics, and just kept his head down trying to hunt down Hamilton. Feel free to look at the data yourself.

Melbourne is also incredibly hard to overtake, Kvyat couldn't pass Stroll despite being able to catch him at will. Gasly couldn't pass Kvyat, and Norris couldn't pass a wounded Giovinnazzi. Last year Verstappen couldn't overtake Alonso, so inability to pass is a poor argument when it's so difficult to do so around here in the first place.

In any case, it was a good race, I'm eager to see the next one, and to watch Red Bull and Honda close the gap, they can do it. It's not a 1.6-2.7 second gap like it was with McLaren it's a .3-.6 second gap.

[HPD]

That's damning if what Marko has said is true, do you not agree?

Calm down my friend. We understand your point.

But there is something you need to know. In F1 ALL say nonsense.
EVERYONE.
Toto, Binotto, Marko, Horner, Cyril.
This is the F1 show.
Now relax

[Quantum]

That's what I'm thinking.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

Bottas finished 22 seconds ahead of Verstappen, 22.520 divided by 58 laps gives .388 seconds, which is the average gap between Bottas and Verstappen on this track. I think that is the true gap, and closing that will give them parity in the race.

I dont think that's representative at all.

Bottas was 16 seconds clear of Verstappen after 24 laps!

Who was also behind the wounded horse.

If we look objectively at the laps where Bottas and Verstappen were both in clean air the gaps were very close, right around .3 seconds.

Furthermore, previous to Bottas's fastest lap, he slowed down 2 seconds off the pace, it was a glory run. Verstappen did no such antics, and just kept his head down trying to hunt down Hamilton. Feel free to look at the data yourself.

Melbourne is also incredibly hard to overtake, Kvyat couldn't pass Stroll despite being able to catch him at will. Gasly couldn't pass Kvyat, and Norris couldn't pass a wounded Giovinnazzi. Last year Verstappen couldn't overtake Alonso, so inability to pass is a poor argument when it's so difficult to do so around here in the first place.

In any case, it was a good race, I'm eager to see the next one, and to watch Red Bull and Honda close the gap, they can do it. It's not a 1.6-2.7 second gap like it was with McLaren it's a .3-.6 second gap.

You are hypothesising.
The best time set by Red Bull was 0.7 off best in the race. That's a fact.
The best time set by Red bull in Q3 was 0.8 off Pole. Again a fact.


You make the point that Oz is difficult to overtake. Hypothesising about various drivers in 2018.
Verstappen overtook Vettel on Sunday. Another fact you fail to mention.

You say its objective to compare 2 cars, one 20 seconds in the lead, and another in 3rd chasing 2nd.
That's not objective at all.
Lead cars dont tend to be the ones pushing the hardest. Witness Bottas requesting the pitwall for a faster engine mode to get the fastest lap.

You reckon he'd risk stacking the his car to get the quickest possible lap for bragging rights on F1technical?
That's interesting to say the least.

Also, Comparing Gasly, why?
He qualified 17th or some such and was all at sea.

I'm sorry I just dont see how you got this 0.3 figure because a guy chasing down 2nd in clear air was 0.3 off a lead car 20 seconds up the road of 2nd.

It makes no sense at all.

[Singabule]

That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything.

Please learn physics

[Quantum]

That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything.

Please learn physics

Engine's are not responsible for downforce.

Quite unbelievable you have the stones to post that.

[Singabule]

That's simply laughable.

They didn't create enough downforce because of the engine?
Whomever believes that will believe anything.

Please learn physics

Engine's are not responsible for downforce.

Quite unbelievable you have the stones to post that.

It is. Please learn also how brain work. After 5 years lack of power, the low drag template is already in their head. They also would not risk anything to change their approach without knowing true race pace, especially with new engine.

[Singabule]

Snip

So either Marko is lying, or Red Bull are telling fibs. I'll go with Marko telling porky pies.

I don't need to prove anything. Red Bull themselves have shown that Marko's comments are BS.
I don't require applause, polite discussion would be welcome however

Fair enough, however how much the improvement 6 month ago, we dont know it either, maybe just a brief performance difference than renault. Nobody know even in RBT if the winter job in honda camp is soo good. From winter to testing, they only have 2 months to adjust. Newey also push the planned updrade to 1st race as this upgare still have efficiency in mind, and it is not needed anymore. Please also see STR wing, they even more severely lack of DF as their car is using same philosophy of previous car, less drag.