2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[Dee]

As seen in this interview, Mercedes already brought the updated PU to the first race. They will not be able to upgrade it further.

If the performance was not there in Bahrain, Mercedes should not bring an update that solves the derate issue. That is a net performance gain, not a reliability upgrade

The article is from February 12th, A month even before preseason testing when they experienced issues.

Again, Your looking at this to simplistically in my opinion. Almost any time any team make a reliability upgrade, it comes with a performance upgrade. A team will overfix the problem if you will, thus letting them push it harder than they would have been able to do previously.

Not to mention your opinion of what is and isn't a reliability upgrade is pretty much at odds with everything we have seen through the history of the FIA regulating upgrades.

This year a reliability upgrade must only bring an engine back up the the performance it had. No enhancement as a performance upgrade is not allowed

[dans79]

This year a reliability upgrade must only bring an engine back up the the performance it had. No enhancement as a performance upgrade is not allowed

Again, Thats is how it was supposed to be in the past, and it never held true. Teams Have always found a way get an upgrade with a reliability fix. The only question is how much of an upgrade is it, and how blatantly obvious is it.

If you have such a problem with the issue contact the FIA!

[Dee]

If Mercedes started with no reliability issues and then had issues and had to fix them, that is a different matter. But that did not happen.

And how do you know they didn't? They could have had issues in FP1 in Bahrain and made a change to ensure reliability.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... r-bahrain/

“We have got some issues with the power units. We know we have issues but we have plenty of plans in place to fix all of those issues. I’m sure it will all be ready for the first race.”

As in the article I linked to you, Mercedes have had issues with their engine since testing and had issues in Bahrain. In 5 months of racing, not once have they said they turned down the engine for reliability.

The derate issues stopped them from getting the performance they wanted. They can't bring an update to fix it as they have already used their update token and performance updates are not allowed

Start of the season Merc were at say level 2, they can't go to level 3 now

If they had started at level 3, there would be no problem, but they didn't.

[dans79]

And If Mercedes as seen on the data have improved the engine performance by fixing the derate in this new upgrade, what should happen to them?

Good luck proving a reliability fix directly lead to a performance increase. Chances of being able to prove it are just as likely as being able to prove that Redbull got a performance improvement with their second PU in France!

[Dee]

And If Mercedes as seen on the data have improved the engine performance by fixing the derate in this new upgrade, what should happen to them?

Good luck proving a reliability fix directly lead to a performance increase. Chances of being able to prove it are just as likely as being able to prove that Redbull got a performance improvement with their second PU in France!

It's all out in the open and fair play with Honda and RB. Their performance data was seen in Bahrain and is now seen again with the reliability upgrade. Again, If Mercedes are found to have brought increased performance to an engine, what should happen?

[Stormblessed]

Reliability fixes tend to offer performance gains and every team in the grid does it. As long as the primary intent is reliability fix, it’s difficult to prove otherwise. As the other member posted here, reliability fixes are approved by the rivals too. Now it’s upto Merc or RBR to prove otherwise on their rival.

[dans79]

And If Mercedes as seen on the data have improved the engine performance by fixing the derate in this new upgrade, what should happen to them?

Good luck proving a reliability fix directly lead to a performance increase. Chances of being able to prove it are just as likely as being able to prove that Redbull got a performance improvement with their second PU in France!

It's all out in the open and fair play with Honda and RB. Their performance data was seen in Bahrain and is now seen again with the reliability upgrade. Again, If Mercedes are found to have brought increased performance to an engine, what should happen?

The PU data isn't out in the open. No PU manufacture has access to another manufactures Data. The only thing the other teams can see is GPS data. performance increases seen in the gps data can be masked and hand waved away in hundreds of different ways. A new front or rear wing design, A new floor, or changes to the floor, or any number of other aero changes. A different approach to setting up the suspension, a different radiator design etc etc etc.

Look at The Ferrari PU debacle things were blatantly obvious in the GPS data, but no team could prove anything definitely.

For example this is how Honda hand waved away the Performance increase seen with the second power unit in france.
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... s/6597112/

Honda F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe reckoned that while Red Bull was pushing with updates to improve the car, any engine gains were probably down to better energy management.

"On the team side we are introducing new parts so that we can evolve every race," he said. "The power unit is the same [specification] all the time, but we are learning better how to use energy management etc. for every race.

"We are looking at the characteristics of each circuit, and I think that such daily developments are connected to the current improvement."

Just like in politics all you need is plausible deniability, and the quote above does that!

[aral]

Could you all please calm down. I reckon that the boffins at Merc have a fair idea as to what they are or will be doing. There is no need for verbal fisticuffs. If you know that Merc is on the wrong course, contact them, they would appreciate your expertise.

[zibby43]

No. Honda had this performance in Bahrain. Whatever Mercedes get from when the upgrade is introduced is new

Oh, I was unaware you knew that Mercedes haven’t been running in compromised ICE or deployment modes this season, and that any performance unlocked will be coming from utilizing the same hardware, but more aggressively.

Just like Honda.

Again, running compromised from the start means that is your level of performance. Fixing it brings gains. Gains which are not allowed as set in the rules.

If Mercedes started with no reliability issues and then had issues and had to fix them, that is a different matter. But that did not happen.

Completely false. That’s basically what Honda did. Ran compromised from Bahrain to just before France.

Mercedes have had problems getting the best out of their ERS deployment and the new plenum chamber design since preseason testing.

The limiting is the potential of the hardware on the car. For example, if they can get more out of the vital hardware by optimizing the mapping, then that’s allowed.

Mercedes was able to make such a tweak in Imola this year already, as reported in an article I posted a few months ago detailing a small step they made with the PU, utilizing the exact same spec as launch.

[PlatinumZealot]

Did "we" ever fix the dud engine from the start of the season though?

I don't remember hearing any news that the problems were fixed?

This could be good news if we can get that "upgrade" in before Silverstone.

[zibby43]

Did "we" ever fix the dud engine from the start of the season though?

I don't remember hearing any news that the problems were fixed?

This could be good news if we can get that "upgrade" in before Silverstone.

There was a report from a reputable technical source that a step/optimization was made in Imola. But nothing confirming a “complete” fix.

There were other reports from a less consistent source that said that Merc were continuing to try to optimize all the maps, deployment, etc. with the new plenum chamber.

[basti313]

Did "we" ever fix the dud engine from the start of the season though?

I don't remember hearing any news that the problems were fixed?

This could be good news if we can get that "upgrade" in before Silverstone.

Is there any reliable source that the engine is not on power? Even Ferrari claims, that there is nothing special about the Honda engine this year.
In the top speed figures for Q we see except for Gio who had a tow only Merc powered cars in the top5.

[Morteza]

[Morteza]

Shovlin said that Mercedes explored a radical set-up change leading up to the GP, developed by Hamilton in the simulator, and that it may have hurt their race pace and neutralized their rear degradation advantage.

“It is a difficult and quite peculiar circuit and Red Bull are normally strong here. But we’re also exploring a fairly wacky direction with the set-up as a radical approach, which I think was maybe a bit better on the single lap. The question that remains is whether we’ve hurt our degradation and we need to look at that in the next day or two.”

Full article:

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/28/wac ... race-pace/

Interesting. Hamilton rarely uses the simulator so it shows that he's using every tool he can to try to get pace in to the car. That's good to see, I think, as it shows there is still the passion to win.

He posted this on his Instagram today

[Big Tea]

Shovlin said that Mercedes explored a radical set-up change leading up to the GP, developed by Hamilton in the simulator, and that it may have hurt their race pace and neutralized their rear degradation advantage.

“It is a difficult and quite peculiar circuit and Red Bull are normally strong here. But we’re also exploring a fairly wacky direction with the set-up as a radical approach, which I think was maybe a bit better on the single lap. The question that remains is whether we’ve hurt our degradation and we need to look at that in the next day or two.”

Full article:

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/28/wac ... race-pace/

Interesting. Hamilton rarely uses the simulator so it shows that he's using every tool he can to try to get pace in to the car. That's good to see, I think, as it shows there is still the passion to win.

He posted this on his Instagram today
https://i.ibb.co/YNw5Nkm/Screenshot-202 ... tagram.jpg

Message is obviously 'my tyres are shot'