[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[Just_a_fan]

Snore snore bore bore. Personal opinions and emotions galore. None of it baked in any cake of reality

Then don't read the thread.

[Just_a_fan]

I must say that, whilst I'm no fan of Vettel, I can't help but feel he's been dropped a bit harshly. If it had been a mutual "we can't agree terms" split then fair enough, but for Ferrari to go behind his back and effectively sign Sainz before discussing the future with Vettel is a bit crass.

[Jolle]

If all the rumours about Vettel's departure are true and it started with Binotto coming into power, it feels like a big departure from the "claws" of PM.

Is this big thing some part of something even bigger inside the Ferrari/PM partnership? Of course, Arriviabenne was a real PM guy, building on proven talent and champions from the past. Binotto of course is 100% Ferrari and not marketing. So... a possible clash higher up, departing from the PM ways, and as soon as the contracts were over, replacing the drivers with the future?

[Macklaren]

If all the rumours about Vettel's departure are true and it started with Binotto coming into power, it feels like a big departure from the "claws" of PM.

Is this big thing some part of something even bigger inside the Ferrari/PM partnership? Of course, Arriviabenne was a real PM guy, building on proven talent and champions from the past. Binotto of course is 100% Ferrari and not marketing. So... a possible clash higher up, departing from the PM ways, and as soon as the contracts were over, replacing the drivers with the future?

Not to mention the Mission Winnow sponsor issues in the last 2 years...

[ENGINE TUNER]

His seat was safe, he just didn’t take it

Yeah , sure, ramming into teammates is the perfect way to ensure job security.

They made him an offer, not the best offer... he decided not to take it. Not like they already had another driver and just said “goodbye“.

Now we see that this may have very well been the case

https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-ne ... ports/amp/

[Ringleheim]

If all the rumours about Vettel's departure are true and it started with Binotto coming into power, it feels like a big departure from the "claws" of PM.

Is this big thing some part of something even bigger inside the Ferrari/PM partnership? Of course, Arriviabenne was a real PM guy, building on proven talent and champions from the past. Binotto of course is 100% Ferrari and not marketing. So... a possible clash higher up, departing from the PM ways, and as soon as the contracts were over, replacing the drivers with the future?

Don't forget, F1 is entering a new era with cost containment. They can't spend whatever they want on drivers anymore, and a huge driver salary like Vettel's would have been a significant portion of the overall budget.

I don't think the brass at Ferrari felt Vettel at this point in his career was returning that level of performance/reliability on track, so they let him go.

I think I read somewhere that Sainz will earn 3 times what he earned at McLaren, which probably wasn't very much. I.E., he is working for a tiny fraction of Vettel's what? $35 million US? More?

All for a guy who is steady, reliable #2 to Leclerc.

I personally don't like the hire and would have loved to see them get Ricciardo or Fred Alonso instead, but I understand the logic of moving on from Vettel.

He strikes me as a guy who has lost the fire he used to have, and he did so some time ago!

[Andres125sx]

Australia 2019 GP
Singapore 2019

TOs in Australia? What? I´ve watched a highlights video, but couldn´t find any either.

AFASIK Alonso didnot win the WDC in 2010, so backing him didnot prove right coz Alonso made some silly errors in Spa, Britain which is what cost the WDC

No they didn´t win, but it was close, despite the 3 races (75 points) difference in Germany...

1- Vettel 256
2- Alonso 252
.
.
.
6- Massa 144

If this is not enough to confirm Ferrari strategy was the best, I don´t know what else do you need

And yes, it was Alonso mistakes what sent the titles to RBR, Newey and Vettel stands, of course

[ENGINE TUNER]

I must say that, whilst I'm no fan of Vettel, I can't help but feel he's been dropped a bit harshly. If it had been a mutual "we can't agree terms" split then fair enough, but for Ferrari to go behind his back and effectively sign Sainz before discussing the future with Vettel is a bit crass.

Disagree, they have to quietly access their options before dumping him, they were looking to possibly/probably replace him, but weren't 100%, they couldn't tip their hand before knowing who was a possible candidate. VET didn't deserve any more consideration than he received, especially since he never showed having the team's best interest in his actions.

[Andres125sx]

I think I read somewhere that Sainz will earn 3 times what he earned at McLaren, which probably wasn't very much. I.E., he is working for a tiny fraction of Vettel's what? $35 million US? More?

Take this with a grain of salt, but I read somewhere they will save 30 millions with Carlos-Vettel swap. I didn´t take it too seriously, so you probably shouldn´t either

[Jolle]

If all the rumours about Vettel's departure are true and it started with Binotto coming into power, it feels like a big departure from the "claws" of PM.

Is this big thing some part of something even bigger inside the Ferrari/PM partnership? Of course, Arriviabenne was a real PM guy, building on proven talent and champions from the past. Binotto of course is 100% Ferrari and not marketing. So... a possible clash higher up, departing from the PM ways, and as soon as the contracts were over, replacing the drivers with the future?

Don't forget, F1 is entering a new era with cost containment. They can't spend whatever they want on drivers anymore, and a huge driver salary like Vettel's would have been a significant portion of the overall budget.

I don't think the brass at Ferrari felt Vettel at this point in his career was returning that level of performance/reliability on track, so they let him go.

I think I read somewhere that Sainz will earn 3 times what he earned at McLaren, which probably wasn't very much. I.E., he is working for a tiny fraction of Vettel's what? $35 million US? More?

All for a guy who is steady, reliable #2 to Leclerc.

I personally don't like the hire and would have loved to see them get Ricciardo or Fred Alonso instead, but I understand the logic of moving on from Vettel.

He strikes me as a guy who has lost the fire he used to have, and he did so some time ago!

Philip Morris is one of the big exemptions that are not effected in any way by the pandemic and are against cost capping.

[Just_a_fan]

Don't forget, F1 is entering a new era with cost containment. They can't spend whatever they want on drivers anymore, and a huge driver salary like Vettel's would have been a significant portion of the overall budget.

Aren't driver salaries outside the cost cap? I know that the midfield teams want the drivers' salaries included, presumably hoping that the best drivers will then become cheaper to hire...

[PlatinumZealot]

Here is what I think. Vettel is still very, very fast. Back in 14' he was further behind Ric on race pace and very, very close on quali pace. These cars where not as fitting to his style as 10'-13' ones, nor the ones he drove last few years. Yet, Leclerc seemed to have more raw speed with 21yrs and only rookie season behind him.

Sainz...Sainz is solid, consistant and relatively fast, but Hulk beat him easily in 18' and he lost quali battle to Norris. I can see him being closer to Leclerc in race pace, but judging by winter testing and Leclercs advantage over Vettel, I can see this being VERY one sided duel. I expect 3-4 tenths on averag in quali and ~1.5x points if both have similar amount of DNFs.

I just think CS misses that raw speed that Charles and Max have, even though he did clean up his racing and is a really good and talented driver.

Carlos has better Racecraft than Leclerc so dont worry about qualifying they will fighting for fifth and sixth if Ferrari dont fix the aero problem next year!

Not sure I agree with that. You mean Carlos race pace was better relative to his team mate then CLs? That I agree with. Vettel still had slight advantage on average over Leclerc in race pace, although Leclerc on his day (Bahrain, Spa, Monza, France, Silverstone) looked quite a bit faster.

As for race craft (overtaking, defending) I cannot agree on that at all.

Race craft is also executing the strategy or reading the race to come up with new stratgy or tactics... Managing the tyres.. All that stuff.

I'm a fan of LeClerc mind you, but he was mainly fast when the tyres were in that good window that was not entirely of his making. Remember it was only his second year so he will get better. But I must call it as i see it; Carlos Sainz race craft is two levels above Charles at the moment. Unless I see LeClerc step his game up against Vettel this year, the fight in 2021 will be very intriguing.

[Scorpaguy]

Actually, I am unsure there are any real Vettel fans, certainly not I. While he may have inspired passion in his TR/RB days...really seemed mostly robotic and disinterested in his days at Big Red. It was not until his Canadian sign switcharoo that had me see some fire in him. Ferrari have been looking for Schumacher 2...Vet was not it. Lec is about to sink or swim...it is too early for me to bet on which.

...as for Vet, I regard him as the 3rd best driver on the grid today. It should also be noted that the best driver does not become the defacto WDC.

[PlatinumZealot]

I slightly disagree. I think Vettel has been one of the most emotionally expressive drivers over the years. He's interesting in that he also clinical to an extent. While not icy cool as Michael, he has had many intances where he's taken his time to plan things out and execute them to a tee. So you could say he shows both sides of the coin.

The firey emotional side is what lost him his job though. I suppose he went a bit overboard sometimes and probably even worse behind closed doors. It is alluded to here by Mark Hughes that Vettel lost his job because of his attitude to authority and red mist. It's said he wasnt even offered a new contract! Ferrari made up their minds to elt him go from December! Quite telling....

https://the-race.com/formula-1/ferrari- ... -contract/

[Just_a_fan]

I'm sure things like Vettel's approach to team orders - happy to take advantage, loathe to reciprocate - doesn't help. It's all very well saying that your team mate didn't play by the rules in some situation or other, but you start to sound like a schoolboy if you're not careful: "he started it, so I'm not playing with him!".

Compare to Hamilton's reaction when asked to play nicely with Bottas - maybe the difference is that he knows he has Bottas beaten. Against Rosberg he was harder (although did play by the rules mostly). Perhaps this is a useful indication of a driver's view of his relationship with his team mate - if he feels comfortable then he is nicer to them. Look at any number of midfield intra-team battles and see team mates refusing to let each other by. Lots of tension between two guys who think they deserve to be ahead, or hate their team mate perhaps.

Maybe in Vettel's mind he doesn't think he has Leclerc beaten, or maybe he's just selfish (in the racing driver sense of the word) and doesn't want to give up any advantage. Certainly he never played fair with Webber either so there is some history there.