Renault Sport Racing and McLaren Racing are pleased to announce they have agreed an engine supply partnership for the 2018, 2019 and 2020 seasons. The deal will see Renault Sport Racing supply McLaren with Formula 1 power units, while also establishing a close working relationship with McLaren’s engineers and technicians.
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plus, who wants McLaren to win races and become WC? Renault doesn't, they probably, when their own team is competitive going to drop RedBull. Mercedes doesn't and certainly doesn't. At this moment the only one is Honda.
Renault is NOT a permanent solution, that's obvious. But for the next couple of years it's much, much better to be on a podium and have a few wins than NOTHING AT ALL.
Agree, but IMHO that route is short sighted if the real target is becoming world champions again at some point
I see it this way, no matter if Honda or Renault, next season McLaren will not be title contenders wich is or should be McLaren target, so if next season target is unrealistic, wich manufacturer will provide better chances to fight for titles in next seasons? IMHO, Honda.
We all know Honda problems, but Renault..
1- Perfomance: third PU at some distance from Ferrari and Mercedes
2- Reliability: similar to Honda, ask Verstappen
3- Works team status: not possible, and actually RBR would probably receive better treatment as they enjoy a long relationship with Renault wich provided 4 WCC in past decade, so they will probably be third team for Renault
4- Huge extra demands: with same PU they´d be forced to built a better chassis to RBR, or at least similar, and we all know Adrian Newey. Not imposible obviously, but a huge challenge for sure
So Renault is not (much) better reliability wise, is not better enough to fight for titles perfomance wise, and has some drawbacks when compared to Honda (no works team and fighting Newey with same PU).
Sincerely, if McLaren signs with Renault, my hopes to see McLaren somewhat competitive (for McLaren that means being a top team again) will be annihilated...
You overstate nearly all your points while mentioning special cases like verstappens. Does works team status really matter if it's a short term deal? Also going to Renault means keeping Alonso
There are major for and against arguments for both sides. Still not sure which camp I'm in
I see it this way, no matter if Honda or Renault, next season McLaren will not be title contenders wich is or should be McLaren target, so if next season target is unrealistic, wich manufacturer will provide better chances to fight for titles in next seasons? IMHO, Honda.
We all know Honda problems, but Renault..
1- Perfomance: third PU at some distance from Ferrari and Mercedes
2- Reliability: similar to Honda, ask Verstappen
3- Works team status: not possible, and actually RBR would probably receive better treatment as they enjoy a long relationship with Renault wich provided 4 WCC in past decade.
4- Huge extra demands: with same PU they´d be forced to built a better chassis to RBR, or at least similar, and we all know Adrian Newey. Not imposible obviously, but a huge challenge for sure
So Renault is not (much) better reliability wise, is not better enough to fight for titles perfomance wise, and has some drawbacks when compared to Honda (no works team and fighting Newey with same PU).
Sincerely, if McLaren signs with Renault, my hopes to see McLaren somewhat competitive (for McLaren that means being a top team again) will be annihilated...
I dont think Renault loves RB too much whit their history, i think until Renault Sport is ready for title they will give Mclaren their best PU and maybe there is a promise from Alonso to join them in the future if they provide a fair PU to. Mclaren.
Peter Prodrumou and Matt Morris can match Adrian.
In modern times, more then ever, budget means speed. Just a clever head designer or some heavyweights won’t make the differences. RedBull has a budget to match Ferrari and Mercedes and Renault has a potential unlimited budget because of the weight of the whole group behind it.
If they swap to being a customer team, they will be soon the third Renault team because of limited resources (compared to their competitors). Third Renault would mean fifth at most, a long way from the lead. Lucky engineering doesn’t happen anymore, you need at least 500mln just for the chassis.
I dont think Renault loves RB too much whit their history, i think until Renault Sport is ready for title they will give Mclaren their best PU and maybe there is a promise from Alonso to join them in the future if they provide a fair PU to. Mclaren.
Peter Prodrumou and Matt Morris can match Adrian.
Until Renault Sport is ready for title... good clarification Goran. So they will receive best PU they can get from third PU manufacturer, until Renault manage to match Ferrari and Mercedes PUs, then McLaren will stop receiving best PU Renault can provide because it will be Renault who will fight for titles instead of McLaren
In my eyes that´s best way to guarantee McLaren will never receive a PU to fight for titles
You overstate nearly all your points while mentioning special cases like verstappens. Does works team status really matter if it's a short term deal? Also going to Renault means keeping Alonso
There are major for and against arguments for both sides. Still not sure which camp I'm in
So you think Renault reliability is decent for a manufacturer wich has same experience as Ferrari and Mercedes?
And going to Renault to me means the opposite, Alonso out of F1. He went out of Ferrari because he was tired of finishing second. With Renault it will be even worse
This said, I´m not sure at all keeping Honda will be better, but at least there´s some possibility. With Renault it will be resigning to some podium as much, wich obviously is much better than currently, but that´s never been McLaren or Alonso targets
If Mclaren gets the Renault PU then it will be a straight swap with TR. With TR maybe using Honda. That means customer Renault PU for Mclaren and not a works one. If you think that the TR chassis is bad then you are naive. The TR chassis is almost as good as the RB but their results differ so much.
It can only work if STR agree to a swap with McLaren the Renault PU for Honda PU. There are only 3 Renault PU allocations allowed. STR has 1. Forget everything else, it has come down to this.
RedBull would agree in an instance. For them it's the best way to get an independent PU. STR would buy them time to let it mature (something McLaren should have done with Manor back in 2015). RedBull isn't Renaults priority, their own works team is. RedBull likes to be on number one, McLaren should have that same ambition.
I disagree with all that. I think Renault isn't like Ferrari and Merc in that they are happy with any of the 3 teams that they power to do well or win. If McLaren, RBR and Renault all had Renault Pu and we fighting for Constructors/WDC Renault couldn't be happier.
Seriously people, is it so hard to understand the concept of damage mitigation ?!
- Yes we all wished at some point that Honda finally had a breaktrough with their PU.
- Yes it´s better to have a works deal anytime before a customer deal.
- Yes Mclaren wants championships and not just random wins/podiums
...And the list can go on and on. But you know what guys, that ship has sailed!
What Mclaren is trying to pull of right now is a way to survive until the next engine rules come 2020. By then, hopefully, they would have rebuilt the brand and racing team image/credibility in the face of fans, sponsors and the likes. Its not personal folks, its business!
As already stated by Zak Brown; Mclaren shareholders are going to "tank" these following years in order for the team to recover from all this mess and retain key personnel. We´re talking designers, mechanics (Lord have mercy on those poor souls!) , star drivers or even interested prospects. I mean, has anyone given serious thought about the morale of the staff or how would any other upcoming F1 talent would want to join the team if a situation like this drags on?
We´re talking about a very high level crisis scenario here. I really wouldnt want to be in the shoes of Zak Brown or even Hasegawa or Yamamoto San. Mclaren is trying to save their brand and racing team from a repeat of this year; and if that means settling in the short term as customers of a "less than ideal" engine partner, than so be it. Honda in the other hand, must also be in a lot of pressure to demonstrate how good their upgrades can/will eventually become, but alas, Mclaren simply cannot gamble another year with them, or else...
Lets not forget that Illmor was working with Renault for the past years, and is now supposed to have been working along Honda (As per Mclaren request) since early this year. All this in order to validate or assess the developements or improvements that Honda has on the pipeline. So, rest assure that when Zak Brown says "We´re going to be talking with people that know quite a lot more than us about these engines..." ; its because by now Illmor would have had a clear conclusion on the prospects of Hondas gains with this PU design.
So please consider guys that this decision process wont be something taken lightly and in detriment of the teams future. Thats what we, as Mclaren fans, must trust for now. There will be a day when we´re back at the very top, but its almost certain that day would have to wait until the next rule set and when/if new engine suppliers come into play. That´ll be our next gamble and lets all hope it finally works out for us. Until then...#BelieveninMclaren
It can only work if STR agree to a swap with McLaren the Renault PU for Honda PU. There are only 3 Renault PU allocations allowed. STR has 1. Forget everything else, it has come down to this.
RedBull would agree in an instance. For them it's the best way to get an independent PU. STR would buy them time to let it mature (something McLaren should have done with Manor back in 2015). RedBull isn't Renaults priority, their own works team is. RedBull likes to be on number one, McLaren should have that same ambition.
I disagree with all that. I think Renault isn't like Ferrari and Merc in that they are happy with any of the 3 teams that they power to do well or win. If McLaren, RBR and Renault all had Renault Pu and we fighting for Constructors/WDC Renault couldn't be happier.
Well. The whole reason they bought enstone was to do just that. Don’t forget, the Renault PU in the back of the RedBull isn’t even marketed as a Renault. Renault can’t run adds that they won at Baku. They do get the public shaming if they fail.
They thought (just as Mercedes thought they had in McLaren) to have a great partnership with RB, until they ran into some problems. Renault isn’t investing all the 100-s of millions of dollars to let RedBull/TAG or McLaren to run away with the winning marketing for a couple of million of leasing costs.
The moment the Renault works team closes in at the front of the field, any competition, especially from their customers will be eliminated, just like Ferrari and Mercedes are doing. There is just too much at stake.
When is the last time McLaren won a constructors championship? Back in 1998.
Its been almost 20 years since McLaren won a constructors championship and most of these years were with Mercedes and not Honda. All this while, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull have dominated the sports. Only positive was 2008 when Lewis won drivers championship.
2009 was a year when a small team - Brawn, won the constructors championship with a Mercedes engine. McLaren had Mercedes engine too that year but it struggled. 2014 is when Mercedes won the constructors, McLaren had access to the best engine in the paddock but struggled big time.
Just goes to show that nothing in the past 20 years of McLaren suggests that a switch to a good engine will guarantee success. If anything they have faltered and failed to capitalize whenever they had access to best engine on the grid.
McLaren is a great team but nothing since 2008 shows that they have held on to their reputation. Look at the pitstops this year - Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Williams all consistently switch in <2.5 secs. McLaren pit crew in most cases takes over 3secs
Small things but just goes to show that with or without Honda, McLaren does not display the same competitive spirit and edge as before.
They did have the most point in 2007 but got disqualified because of the scandal. They basically imploded. They had the car to win both the Constructors and the WDC(2 drivers tied with 1 point less than the WDC).
Well, this is an interesting perspective, and I assume as close to straight from the horse's mouth as we are likely to get.
However, your opinion just reinforces my feeling that Honda is not going to make good next year either. If the 2017 PU did indeed suffer from the "too many cooks" syndrome, it sounds to me like they'd need yet another clean slate to "unmeddle", which essentially means yet another "development" year.
Perhaps Honda will eventually sort it out, but if that means reliable in 2019 and maybe competitive in 2020, that would be a long time to wait for a team like McLaren.
If the STR swap is indeed a done deal, this may work out really well for RBR. I don't see any scenario in which McLaren comes out ahead.
Well, there is a new "Spec 4" that is "less meddled" built and being tested. I am biased but I think it is a more robust, efficient PU with only a slight weight disadvantage. With all this supposed turmoil, who knows when or if we will see it this year. The overall architecture is not that different from the current spec PU and the "delays" have already occurred so I don't think it will be another "clean slate" scenario like it was from 2016 to 2017
God D*mm IT Wazari!!...Apply some pressure...lets see this PU!!!!
Completely agree, taking a Renault engine would be about securing more points next season and nothing more.
They could not match Red bull as they now have to build around a different engine.
Staying with Honda is a bigger risk and bigger reward.
Could Honda take a sabbatical from Formula 1 and do lots of millions of miles on a mule car to fix these problems?
If they are outside of Formula 1 they can test as much as they like.
Renault is NOT a permanent solution, that's obvious.
