2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[jumpingfish]

[AMG.Tzan]

Both Verstapen and Horner moaning that Hamilton also went wide at Brazil and Jeddah as if they're d**ads and can't understand that Hamilton went wide on both occasions because Max was on the inside and pushed him wide!

It's unacceptable by a team principle to not only support but also encourage his driver's dangerous driving! Horner and Marko should both receive some kind of punishment as they're setting the wrong precedent every time they're on the wrong side of a penalty!!

[Incognito]

ahaha, poor Ham , he knew Max was trying something funky so he didn't overtook him, instead he got close behind him as much as he could, don't make me laugh

Thank you for so eloquently proving my point

[nimoraca]

To sum it all up:
1. The race gets stopped (a potentially championship altering decision) because of a bit of damage on the barriers and that occurs after 3 laps of safety car.
2. On the new formation lap, Hamilton drives unnecessarily slowly (unsportsmen like?) but there is no rule against it on the formation lap.
3. On the restart, Max loses the first position (by more than a full car length) but retakes it back by cutting the corner and returning unsafely back (costing Hamilton another position in the process).
4. Max gets overtaken on the track by Hamilton again but retakes the position back by divebombing on the inside, leaving the track (again) and forcing Hamilton to take avoiding actions (again).
5. Max gets notified that he needs to let Hamilton by, but to do so "strategically" so that he can retain an advantage and retake the position back unfairly (again) on the next straight.
6. Hamilton does not get notified that Max will give the position back and gets confused by Max slowing down but somehow not clearly moving to one side of the track but staying close to the middle of the track.
7. Max brake checks (breaks hard with another car behind him) Hamilton
8. Max is (again) issued an order to give position back which he does, but retains an advantage and retakes position back on the next DRS
9. Finally, Max gets overtaken by Hamilton (again) with Hamilton driving without half of its front wing.
10. Max gets voted driver of the day and in his "driver of the day interview" says that this is not F1 for him.

Did I miss something.

[DChemTech]

To sum it all up:
1. The race gets stopped (a potentially championship altering decision) because of a bit of damage on the barriers and that occurs after 3 laps of safety car.
2. On the new formation lap, Hamilton drives unnecessarily slowly (unsportsmen like?) but there is no rule against it on the formation lap.
3. On the restart, Max loses the first position (by more than a full car length) but retakes it back by cutting the corner and returning unsafely back (costing Hamilton another position in the process).
4. Max gets overtaken on the track by Hamilton again but retakes the position back by divebombing on the inside, leaving the track (again) and forcing Hamilton to take avoiding actions (again).
5. Max gets notified that he needs to let Hamilton by, but to do so "strategically" so that he can retain an advantage and retake the position back unfairly (again) on the next straight.
6. Hamilton does not get notified that Max will give the position back and gets confused by Max slowing down but somehow not clearly moving to one side of the track but staying close to the middle of the track.
7. Max brake checks (breaks hard with another car behind him) Hamilton
8. Max is (again) issued an order to give position back which he does, but retains an advantage and retakes position back on the next DRS
9. Finally, Max gets overtaken by Hamilton (again) with Hamilton driving without half of its front wing.
10. Max gets voted driver of the day and in his "driver of the day interview" says that this is not F1 for him.

Did I miss something.

Between 9 and 10, Lewis after overtaking doesn't attempt to make the corner with Max still next to him, pushing Max of the track.

[rifrafs2kees]

There is one aspect nobody touches spin yet. This happened twice before. Rosberg and Vettel. This relentless pressure from Hamilton already destroyed two opponents. One is sitting at the beach and one poodling around at the back. Don’t underestimate what a hunting Hamilton does to your mental health

You can add Alonso to the bunch. Who knows, he might have achieved more if he maintained composure under pressure.

[djones]

To sum it all up:
1. The race gets stopped (a potentially championship altering decision) because of a bit of damage on the barriers and that occurs after 3 laps of safety car.
2. On the new formation lap, Hamilton drives unnecessarily slowly (unsportsmen like?) but there is no rule against it on the formation lap.
3. On the restart, Max loses the first position (by more than a full car length) but retakes it back by cutting the corner and returning unsafely back (costing Hamilton another position in the process).
4. Max gets overtaken on the track by Hamilton again but retakes the position back by divebombing on the inside, leaving the track (again) and forcing Hamilton to take avoiding actions (again).
5. Max gets notified that he needs to let Hamilton by, but to do so "strategically" so that he can retain an advantage and retake the position back unfairly (again) on the next straight.
6. Hamilton does not get notified that Max will give the position back and gets confused by Max slowing down but somehow not clearly moving to one side of the track but staying close to the middle of the track.
7. Max brake checks (breaks hard with another car behind him) Hamilton
8. Max is (again) issued an order to give position back which he does, but retains an advantage and retakes position back on the next DRS
9. Finally, Max gets overtaken by Hamilton (again) with Hamilton driving without half of its front wing.
10. Max gets voted driver of the day and in his "driver of the day interview" says that this is not F1 for him.

Did I miss something.

No, that is exactly what happened.

The driver of the day thing is almost as confusing as him getting away lightly with all the dangerous moves and intentions to DNF Hamilton. Almost as though it was rigged

[WaikeCU]

To sum it all up:
1. The race gets stopped (a potentially championship altering decision) because of a bit of damage on the barriers and that occurs after 3 laps of safety car.
2. On the new formation lap, Hamilton drives unnecessarily slowly (unsportsmen like?) but there is no rule against it on the formation lap.
3. On the restart, Max loses the first position (by more than a full car length) but retakes it back by cutting the corner and returning unsafely back (costing Hamilton another position in the process).
4. Max gets overtaken on the track by Hamilton again but retakes the position back by divebombing on the inside, leaving the track (again) and forcing Hamilton to take avoiding actions (again).
5. Max gets notified that he needs to let Hamilton by, but to do so "strategically" so that he can retain an advantage and retake the position back unfairly (again) on the next straight.
6. Hamilton does not get notified that Max will give the position back and gets confused by Max slowing down but somehow not clearly moving to one side of the track but staying close to the middle of the track.
7. Max brake checks (breaks hard with another car behind him) Hamilton
8. Max is (again) issued an order to give position back which he does, but retains an advantage and retakes position back on the next DRS
9. Finally, Max gets overtaken by Hamilton (again) with Hamilton driving without half of its front wing.
10. Max gets voted driver of the day and in his "driver of the day interview" says that this is not F1 for him.

Did I miss something.

Max weaving a bit on the start/finish straight trying to break the tow even tho Lewis was already close enough with DRS to overtake into T1.

[Tom145145]

Brake testing you rival now leads to a virtual penalization with no real punishment?

FIA is ruining this sport. Brake testing someone is one of the DIRTIEST maneouvers any driver can do. But looks like Verstappen is free to do whatever he wants, legal or not.

It´s a shame what this sport is becoming

You are still assigning intent here.
There is a difference between brake-testing to get someone to ram into you, or braking because you were instructed to let someone by, and that person is not passing you. And yes, he braked at a strange time and place, but that still doesn't mean he did it with intent - he was probably expecting Hamilton to pass by using the gap on the left, or maybe he didn't really consider that Lewis was so close behind him (yes, which is dumb, but not intentional) out of frustration that Lewis was not passing despite the instructions. Then there was the whole aspect of poor communication, with one driver being instructed on the pass, and the other not. All these things weigh in.

Intent is actually quite easy.

If the intent was to ensure Lewis was ahead as they went over the DRS line then a simple way for Max to do that would be to pull the right and brake as Lewis got close to him before Lewis can fully react (Alonso vs Hamilton in Canada 2013 for example).

However since Max was staring at the left mirror and was drifting to the left side of the track as he hit the brakes it makes it far harder to argue the intent was solely to be behind at the DRS line.

I believe there was intent, but does it even matter…what fool applies the brakes in that situation and not think the other car could hit you. It’s a simple choice: 1) Max did a brake check on Hamilton. 2) Max is incompetent and lacks the racing knowledge for F1. I know what I would prefer to think of Max and he will probably come out and say it at the next race knowing him.

[Incognito]

Between 9 and 10, Lewis after overtaking doesn't attempt to make the corner with Max still next to him, pushing Max of the track.

There's no need to over dramatise, Hamilton does make the corner (I know, weird, right? I guess you can be on the inside and stay on track. Who knew?). He does definitely push Verstappen off when he has plenty of space not to and, in a normal season, I'd expect him to be penalised.

Also missing are the illegal practice start in the pitlane. And Verstappen ceding the position and then immediately re-overtaking. Unless they've changed the rules, both of these should also see penalties.

[dans79]

No. He was voted because the “orange army” are rabid and flood the votes. It’s a popularity contest.

Yea, it shows how lowsome some of them are.

2 penalties, and attempts to take out an opponent. And they all think it's perfectly fine!

Thats just the type of fans (not all of them) netflix has drawn in.

I know, that's why I said some. I know some perfectly normal Max fans, and they were disgusted by yesterday

[ArcticWolfie]

Hamilton knew fully what Verstappen intended to do, he kept his dumb appearance up knowning well he should keep his mouth shut about what Verstappen was doing. So when Verstappen let go of the accelerator, Hamilton didn't want to overtake, Verstappen pressed the brakes a bit harder to force Hamilton to overtake, which Hamilton didn't expect and it resulted in a minor collision. Verstappen got punished for that last brake action... It's ridiculous to say the least; both the FIA and Hamilton's hypocrisy.
Verstappen had to gave the place back he chose there for obvious reasons and Hamilton didn't want to take it. So in my opinion Hamilton lost the place to Verstappen at that moment. And the driver crashing in the rear of another car is always the one at fault.

[Incognito]

Also, the Lap 17 restart wasn't a dive bomb (if that was what you were referring to). It was a great move by Verstappen and Hamilton wasn't forced off the track. He and Ocon had a coming together and Ocon went off.

[Jambier]

Lets discuss the 'Bottas driving slow behind the safety car'

Does anyone know the actual delta time for driving under a SC? how slow they must go?

As the gap between Lewis and Bottas as the SC was launched was 3 seconds. Then it was up to 7 seconds. Depending on how slow they must drive, 7 seconds could well be the right size gap.

For the people claiming what Bottas did was wrong, what should the gap have been under Safety Car between Lewis and Bottas???

I think the worst thing from BOT was trying to crash into VES. This was Hungary all over again, I don't know how premeditated that was

What? When?

At the restart, Horner spoke about it to the stewarts as well.

- Bottas is braking too late, locking tyres and will push Verstappen
- Verstappen is braking too late as well, overtaking HAM outside or track, but avoiding the contact with BOT

If Verstappen had brake in a normal line, he would have been pushed out by BOT

Look here the first 10 seconds:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 49030.html

He was very lucky to escape that

[Bill]

if you guys think lewis is all great and wonderful why did he resort to crashing Max in silverstone .the irony is lost in some of you is that we have these artifacial champiship because lewis stated with cheating when he took Max out.it should have been long over in qatar.were was lewis when vettel distroyed him for 4 straight years it took 2 secound merc to safe his behind