2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[El Scorchio]

Unfortunately after yesterday I don't have any faith that there won't be (or at least there won't be an attempt at) a championship deciding collision. It really saddens me.
If behind, Hamilton is going to have to hope that his car has enough grunt to make a very clean pass with a very wide berth on that long straight. Trying to overtake at any corner looks like a completely pointless exercise, given what we've witnessed in Saudi and Brazil.

[SmallSoldier]

He has been told that he is the best, the best at street circuits too. Hamilton has no talent and he is only fast because he had the fastest car. So I think there is a mental breakdown when he cannot compute why Horner's, Jos' and Helmut's reassurance that Hamilton is mediocre isn't making sense in reality. And here is tied on points... Hamilton winning 3 races in a row. I don't think he has processed what is happening and is reacting in the wrong way because his handlers have him believe that the world is against him. I would have enjoyed this championship more without the dirty driving. Pace alone and strong defending and craft would have been more satisfying.

Hamilton is winning against all odds. Just using experience to dodge bullets at this stage.
I hope he wins lights to flag in abudhabi and leave redbull with their jaws on the floor unable to do anything.
At this point Max is mentally distraught, you can see it on his face. But he has done very well so far as a 24 year old driving against really difficult competition. If he had been better managed he would not be having this breakdown.
Focusing on his speed and craft would have paid off more than focusing on dirty tactics.
It's almost as if he has conceded that Hamilton is the better driver. deep down but refuses to try and improve himself. It's sad, and I hope he is a cleaner driver next year.
Alonso would have indeed been a better opponent were he in the Redbull.

Is just the opposite. U are wrong. Redbull is competing against odds. Mercedes team is a super power team, technically and politically. They still have advantage woth engines after 8 years. Renault and ferrari are still trying to catch. This is not rnormal at all. We have to thank max is giving us for the first time an interesting championship. He is doing anything he can to keep fight alive, even with tricks and over the limits moves. Otherwise would have been the traditional useless f1 championship. Think about

I totally agree with you.

Max is the only thing for now bringing some sport into those championship with the boring Mercedes domination

For the sake of F1 Mercedes MUST fail in 2022.

People have been saying for the last 5-6 years that unless Mercedes is unseated from their position at the top of F1, that Formula 1 won’t survive, will disappear… F1 is doing better than ever.

I would love to see someone else other than Ham / Merc win the WDC and WCC, but if it’s going to be because someone isn’t driving under the same set of rules than the rest and that clearly is willing to take their rivals out if that mean winning… Then, I much rather keep seeing Ham / Merc winning

[fourmula1]

if you guys think lewis is all great and wonderful why did he resort to crashing Max in silverstone .the irony is lost in some of you is that we have these artifacial champiship because lewis stated with cheating when he took Max out.it should have been long over in qatar.were was lewis when vettel distroyed him for 4 straight years it took 2 secound merc to safe his behind

Why this s##t yet again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are on the inside ffs, then its your corner, remember what Horner said about Barcelona, Imola, Brazil and not Saudi ???

It's sickening that some people's view on some of these incidents are so can change depending on which driver is doing what. Lewis was fully alongside, on the inside, its his corner, as long as he stays on track (which he DID) then he can take what ever line he wants. Thats why Barcelona, Imola & Brazil (turn1 with Bottas) there is no penalty for Max.

lol.

I've lurked this forum for many years and am surprised how un-technical it is sometimes.

Bottom line is the FIA/F1 have let the racing get out of hand for far too long. In so many other series it is black and white. The moves we've seen all year would result in instant penalties.

The real result and problem of all this is that they are robbing us of good racing. If you force them to stay within the lines through harsh penalties & physical barriers then we will see drivers go through these chicanes side by side, exit side by side, and fight into the next complex of corners. If you are side by side in the braking zone it is no ones corner. The person on the inside shouldn't be entitled to drive the outside person off track. And if you are on the outside you aren't entitled to the apex.

Every move is all or nothing, we don't even get to see them race. Force them to stay between the lines and we will get so much more action!!!!

[proteus]

Unfortunately after yesterday I don't have any faith that there won't be (or at least there won't be an attempt at) a championship deciding collision. It really saddens me.
If behind, Hamilton is going to have to hope that his car has enough grunt to make a very clean pass with a very wide berth on that long straight. Trying to overtake at any corner looks like a completely pointless exercise, given what we've witnessed in Saudi and Brazil.

In all honesty what did you expect? Mercedes is so much quicker that Max is forced into diving manouvres and "do or die" moves. Lewis got .3 to.5 advantage on the straight without DRS. Snipped front wing, fully stressed harder tyres from following and still able to smash fastest laps one after another towards the end. It is not in Max blood to stand down and move over. He has gone down fighting - questionable at times, but nothing we havent seen before (Schumacher - Hill, Senna - Prost, etc.) The biggest difference between Lewis and Max is that with Max you know he wont budge, while Lewis will be looking you in your eyes, smile at you and tapping you on the shoulder and stab you in the back. Thats why i stopped cheering for him after his Mclaren career. One thing is certain - Max managed to force Lewis into giving his all. Something he wasnt used to do for quite a long time.

[henry]

I think that if Hamilton had been informed that Verstappen was to give him the place back he would have behaved exactly the same. He would have known with more certainty what Verstappen’s plan was and he would still refuse to pass before the DRS detection line.

[jz11]

I think that if Hamilton had been informed that Verstappen was to give him the place back he would have behaved exactly the same. He would have known with more certainty what Verstappen’s plan was and he would still refuse to pass before the DRS detection line.

Who you'd then blame for the collision? Max for not handing that position on the silver platter with a deep deep bow? Or the one that fully expected what was in front of him and still managed to hit the car in front?

[F1NAC]

Unfortunately after yesterday I don't have any faith that there won't be (or at least there won't be an attempt at) a championship deciding collision. It really saddens me.
If behind, Hamilton is going to have to hope that his car has enough grunt to make a very clean pass with a very wide berth on that long straight. Trying to overtake at any corner looks like a completely pointless exercise, given what we've witnessed in Saudi and Brazil.

In all honesty what did you expect? Mercedes is so much quicker that Max is forced into diving manouvres and "do or die" moves. Lewis got .3 to.5 advantage on the straight without DRS. Snipped front wing, fully stressed harder tyres from following and still able to smash fastest laps one after another towards the end. It is not in Max blood to stand down and move over. He has gone down fighting - questionable at times, but nothing we havent seen before (Schumacher - Hill, Senna - Prost, etc.) The biggest difference between Lewis and Max is that with Max you know he wont budge, while Lewis will be looking you in your eyes, smile at you and tapping you on the shoulder and stab you in the back. Thats why i stopped cheering for him after his Mclaren career. One thing is certain - Max managed to force Lewis into giving his all. Something he wasnt used to do for quite a long time.

What about other instances? Austria 2019? Baku 2018? etc... Guy is unable to race wheel to wheel. I mean.. He is but he is not even in top class in that regard..

He is not forced to do anything. He is there to race. By the book!

His intentions are clear after this race. IF he has the chance to put you out if it means championship or win the race, he will do that. And he has full support of his team. Team that was very vocal when karma struck him back at Silverstone. But whenever he comes unscathed it is "Let them race, hard racing blah blah blah". That has to stop.

[MattWellsyWells]

This is the 19th season of Formula One that I've followed and I think that is probably the worst race I've watched. Yeah, it had drama, controversy, incident and accident but the driving standards were poor and the race direction seemed to be in total chaos.

I rate Verstappen highly, I think he's been amazing for most of the year and is clearly extremely quick. I admire the fact he doesn't want to give up and that he wants to race hard but he often pushes it too far. He is complaining about F1 turning in to a sport that is only about penalties but the penalties only happen because he keeps gaining or retaining positions by going off track which is correctly outside of the rules. Either these are mistakes or deliberate. If a mistake then hold your hands up and give the place back or, if its deliberate, then you deserve a penalty. I wouldn't be so bothered about it if he (or his team) was willing to accept responsibility.

For the brake checking incident I feel like both are partly to blame. At the time I couldn't understand why Hamilton didn't just drive straight past but watching the replays I can see why he didn't. I don't think it was very obvious to start with what Verstappen was doing as it was just a bit of a lift so Hamilton decided he didn't want to overtake just before the DRS line so he also lifted to stay behind. But then Verstappen kept slowing down (probably correctly) but by that point Hamilton had sort of committed to staying behind but they ended up at a snails pace and crashing into each other which made both look stupid in my opinion.

Clearly the stewards concluded Verstappen was mostly to blame from the telemetry etc. How significant is 69 bar in terms of brake pressure? How does that relate to normal braking for a corner?

Red flags seem to be much more common in races at the moment. Is this because race control are being more cautious about things? Is it because of the TecPro barriers and how they absorb impacts?

I do think the red flag rules need looking at, especially if stoppages are going to stay frequent. They seem to throw up too many random events and changes to the order. Surely a red flag should just be a pause to the race where nothing changes. I know the rules are the same for everyone and one driver might get lucky this race with it but unlucky the next race. But F1 shouldn't be about luck and random events. Even having standing restarts seems a bit weird because of the jeopardy they present. Again, I know it is the same for everyone and standing starts are a skill that needs to be mastered but still.

Also, wasn't there a thing about Sprint weekends where a certain team had to change their clutches because they aren't designed for more than one standing start? How can they be fine with three of them in one afternoon?

[El Scorchio]

Unfortunately after yesterday I don't have any faith that there won't be (or at least there won't be an attempt at) a championship deciding collision. It really saddens me.
If behind, Hamilton is going to have to hope that his car has enough grunt to make a very clean pass with a very wide berth on that long straight. Trying to overtake at any corner looks like a completely pointless exercise, given what we've witnessed in Saudi and Brazil.

In all honesty what did you expect? Mercedes is so much quicker that Max is forced into diving manouvres and "do or die" moves. Lewis got .3 to.5 advantage on the straight without DRS. Snipped front wing, fully stressed harder tyres from following and still able to smash fastest laps one after another towards the end. It is not in Max blood to stand down and move over. He has gone down fighting - questionable at times, but nothing we havent seen before (Schumacher - Hill, Senna - Prost, etc.) The biggest difference between Lewis and Max is that with Max you know he wont budge, while Lewis will be looking you in your eyes, smile at you and tapping you on the shoulder and stab you in the back. Thats why i stopped cheering for him after his Mclaren career. One thing is certain - Max managed to force Lewis into giving his all. Something he wasnt used to do for quite a long time.

Being in a car with a pace deficit is zero excuse for behaving like that. You didn't see Ocon doing that to Bottas, or indeed anyone doing it to Verstappen in the races he had to make places through the field. You barely ever see anyone do what Verstappen did in Brazil or multiple times in SA. You cannot justify that behaviour by saying he was in a slower car or he was desperate.

[SmallSoldier]

Thats just the type of fans (not all of them) netflix has drawn in.

If u go into f1 official Facebook page you can see the comment section that they are flooded with comments calling lewis as the cheater. It's the same in twitter

That’s the healthiest thing one can do

Thats why I dont use Facebook, and only follow official people on twitter and don't read the comments.

[ema00]

to all the "brake testing" people out there, have a look at this video before it is blocked:


that is NOT what brake testing looks like, I can tell you that much, that is erratic driving at best and probably the reason he actually did get the penalty, (for 2nd or 3rd time I'm saying this) but the big reason for all this was that Masi informed RB first and only then Merc, what he should have done was to tell the team behind FIRST and only then instruct the leading team, and this all would have been avoided

Passing from 154 to 108 isn't brake testing? Are you serious?

[TNTHead]

Unfortunately after yesterday I don't have any faith that there won't be (or at least there won't be an attempt at) a championship deciding collision. It really saddens me.
If behind, Hamilton is going to have to hope that his car has enough grunt to make a very clean pass with a very wide berth on that long straight. Trying to overtake at any corner looks like a completely pointless exercise, given what we've witnessed in Saudi and Brazil.

In all honesty what did you expect? Mercedes is so much quicker that Max is forced into diving manouvres and "do or die" moves. Lewis got .3 to.5 advantage on the straight without DRS. Snipped front wing, fully stressed harder tyres from following and still able to smash fastest laps one after another towards the end. It is not in Max blood to stand down and move over. He has gone down fighting - questionable at times, but nothing we havent seen before (Schumacher - Hill, Senna - Prost, etc.) The biggest difference between Lewis and Max is that with Max you know he wont budge, while Lewis will be looking you in your eyes, smile at you and tapping you on the shoulder and stab you in the back. Thats why i stopped cheering for him after his Mclaren career. One thing is certain - Max managed to force Lewis into giving his all. Something he wasnt used to do for quite a long time.

Being in a car with a pace deficit is zero excuse for behaving like that. You didn't see Ocon doing that to Bottas, or indeed anyone doing it to Verstappen in the races he had to make places through the field. You barely ever see anyone do what Verstappen did in Brazil or multiple times in SA. You cannot justify that behaviour by saying he was in a slower car or he was desperate.

Not justifying his way of driving, but the difference between Ocon and VER is that VER is defending his WDC advantage. For me it's quite logical that you try your very best. I admire VER for his all in approach. Is it mature? Not yet, but I think you need some sort of aggression to be a hero in F1. Otherwise you'd better go find another job to make a living. Psychologically one could argue that it is was compensation behaviour after his bodged qualifying-lap.

Besides, remember the season when HAM and ROS were in an intense fight? You had quite the same tension. Not particularly special.

[jumpingfish]

I would glad to see Ham and Ver in the same team, no matter RB or Mercedes with equal treatment. Season with a hell flame is guaranteed. So sad it couldn't happen ever.

[rifrafs2kees]

I even think that it was simply his fault not to just blast by once Ver started to go even slower, with the momentum there would have been no chance to use the DRS for Ver.

Highly unlikely, Max wanted to force Lewis up the inside so he had a compromised and slower line through the turn. Max wouldd have gone around outside at maximum speed and thus had a better line and corner exit velocity.

With the overspeed Lewis would have had if he continued on at 300 kph, while Max slowed down to maybe 150 - 200 kph, I don't think that would have worked. Max would need to better exit and DRS to not lose sight of Hamilton - no way he'd be able to overtake him right after.

Not well thought out at all. You do realize it might've been suicidal to barrel down at slowing competitor without blue flags or some communication as to why said competitor has slowed down in the MIDDLE of a track with no runoff? Come on, you can do better.

Verstappen's dubious pretense of relinquishing the position started this chain reaction. Any attempt to lay blame with Hamilton is a stretch.

[nimoraca]

"I find it interesting that I am the one who gets the penalty when both of us ran outside of the white lines" - Max Verstappen, after forcing another driver of track and forcing him to take evading action. The guy is completely mental.